JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to kjw47 in post #967]

Has it ever occurred to you that Jesus has NO earthly, human, father?

That's kind of a big deal. Wouldn't you say?

How many "men" do you know that have NO earthly, human, father; that came only from their mother's egg, with no man whatsoever involved in their procreation?

Just the one, Jesus Christ.

In your very limited Bible experience, have you ever come across the verse that states that "we should not all be teachers"? And that there will be a more severe punishment for those who teach things about God and the Bible that are unbiblical?

Claiming that Jesus is just a "man" is verrry unbiblical.

Biblical: Relating to or contained in the Bible.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Psalm 8:4-5
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? ...For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus was a man.

[otseng]

Look, you can believe whatever makes you feel better about living in habitual sins, and in disobedience toward God

In your very limited Bible experience,

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[tam]

Peace to you,

Then please explain how each verse that the OP presents actually shows that Jesus IS God. That would be extremely informative and might actually change my mind!

Nah, that's not how it works. Nice try though.

You don't get to SELECT the verses that you wish for someone to prove this or that to you with.

The Bible is LOADED with verses that prove Jesus is God.

All of you who preach this trash completely throw out John 1:1, 14 which couldn't be MORE clear that Jesus is God. But OF COURSE if the Bible is that clear on a topic you don't agree with, here you come with "It's not the proper translation!!", etc., etc.

John 1:1 (and 14) do not state that Christ is the Most Holy One of Israel, the Father, [YHWH]. John 1:1 does not even state "the Lord" where someone might have made a case (even if erroneously) that originally this had written "YHWH" in place of "the Lord".

"God" is not a name. I'm not sure it is even really a title, but rather more of a description of that (kind of) being. Traditionally, we capitalize "G" when we are referring to the Most High God, the MOST Holy One, the ALMIGHTY, the Father, [YHWH]. But the word 'god' is used to describe other beings as well, and that does not make them THE God (the MOST Holy One of Israel... the Father... [YHWH])

Christ explains this very thing at John 10:34, when they accused Him of calling Himself God and blaspheming:

“Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came— and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?"

If men can be gods, then how much more so the One who is the very SON of God, the firstborn of God?

There is no issue with calling Christ, "God". That does not make Him the Father, the MOST HIGH God, the Most Holy One of Israel, [YHWH]. No more than it would make the men who are gods the Most High God, the Most Holy One of Israel, [YHWH].


The writing that Christ was referencing of course is Psalm 82:6:

I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,


Some translations capitalize the "G" here and some do not. Either way, it is clear that this does not mean that these people are THE God (the Most Holy One of Israel; the Father; [YHWH]). Though note also that they are also being called sons of the Most High.


Whether you capitalize "G" at John 1:1c or not, the verse does not state or mean that Christ is the Most Holy One of Israel, the Father, [YHWH].


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Runner]

John 1:1 (and 14) do not state that Christ is the Most Holy One of Israel, the Father, [YHWH]. John 1:1 does not even state "the Lord" where someone might have made a case (even if erroneously) that originally this had written "YHWH" in place of "the Lord".

John 1:1, 14 makes Christ the Creator in its coinciding with Genesis 1:1 which makes Christ God.

If men can be gods, then how much more so the One who is the very SON of God, the firstborn of God?

Where do you see me claiming that "men" can be gods? All little 'g' gods are demons.

If you are standing upon a single verse, taken out of context, that states 'the man Jesus' or anything along those lines, you are unaware of the Scriptures that call Angels "men" as well. And it makes no difference because that/those verse(s) don't contradict the many other verses that plainly demonstrate that Jesus Christ is not merely a "man". It is not possible for Him to have been when you take the Bible in its entirety on the subject. One must work very hard to deny much of Scripture in order to embrace the notion that Christ is just a mortal man.

There is no issue with calling Christ, "God". That does not make Him the Father, the MOST HIGH God, the Most Holy One of Israel, [YHWH]. No more than it would make the men who are gods the Most High God, the Most Holy One of Israel, [YHWH].

Claiming that Christ is 'A' god makes Him a demon. Is that your conscious intention?

There is only ONE True God. Of that, there is no debate. Therefore, if you are going with Christ is 'A' god, you are claiming that Jesus Christ is a demon.

[tam]

Peace to you,

John 1:1 (and 14) do not state that Christ is the Most Holy One of Israel, the Father, [YHWH]. John 1:1 does not even state "the Lord" where someone might have made a case (even if erroneously) that originally this had written "YHWH" in place of "the Lord".

John 1:1, 14 makes Christ the Creator in its coinciding with Genesis 1:1 which makes Christ God.

You may be reading that into the verses, but that is not what the verses state.

If men can be gods, then how much more so the One who is the very SON of God, the firstborn of God?

Where do you see me claiming that "men" can be gods?

I never said you claimed it. Christ is the One who claimed it (as is written from the Psalms).

All little 'g' gods are demons.

Some translations use 'g' and some use 'G'. Either way, Christ did not call the men from these verses demons. Nor did He call them THE God (the MOST Holy One, the MOST High God, [YHWH]).

Also, the verse in Psalm that Christ references called these men (who are called gods) sons of God.

Not demons.

You are mistaken.

If you are standing upon a single verse, taken out of context, that states 'the man Jesus' or anything along those lines, you are unaware of the Scriptures that call Angels "men" as well. And it makes no difference because that/those verse(s) don't contradict the many other verses that plainly demonstrate that Jesus Christ is not merely a "man". It is not possible for Him to have been when you take the Bible in its entirety on the subject. One must work very hard to deny much of Scripture in order to embrace the notion that Christ is just a mortal man.

I never once suggested that Christ is just a mortal man.

I wrote about the manner in which "god/God" is used in what is written. Perhaps you might re-read the post?

There is no issue with calling Christ, "God". That does not make Him the Father, the MOST HIGH God, the Most Holy One of Israel, [YHWH]. No more than it would make the men who are gods the Most High God, the Most Holy One of Israel, [YHWH].

Claiming that Christ is 'A' god makes Him a demon. Is that your conscious intention?

Your logic is in error. See above.

Peace again to you.

[Runner]

I never said you claimed it. Christ is the One who claimed it (as is written from the Psalms).

If you're referring to Psalm 82, God is speaking to the Fallen Angels. The Watchers who were supposed to be watching over mankind. Instead they were exploiting them in very evil ways. Enoch confirms this and though many refuse to accept Enoch, it is referenced in Scripture.

Some translations use 'g' and some use 'G'. Either way, Christ did not call the men from these verses demons. Nor did He call them THE God (the MOST Holy One, the MOST High God, [YHWH]).

Remind me which verses, please.

Also, the verse in Psalm that Christ references called these men (who are called gods) sons of God. Not demons. You are mistaken.

All angels are referred to as sons of God. Job 38:7 shows the Holy angels present at Creation shouting for joy and refers to them as sons of God.

The sons of God who followed lucifer in the rebellion ... are demons.

Many of these demons became little 'g' gods upon the earth.

[kjw47]

You stated Jesus is that God,)----only trinitarians believe Jesus is God.

Whatever you have learned about the Bible, from wherever, is very lacking.

No, trinitarians are not the only ones who believe Jesus is God.

I don't agree with trinitarians in the least. I believe exactly what the Bible teaches from Genesis to Revelation.

Jesus and God are ONE. Jesus IS God Almighty.

There is NO trinity taught anywhere in all of Scripture, but there is also no continuity of the concept that the Father is the only God and Jesus is just a man. That is not sound doctrine in the least.

On the contrary, the Bible is very clear, and has continuity throughout, that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.

They are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.

[kjw47]

[Replying to kjw47 in post #967]

Has it ever occurred to you that Jesus has NO earthly, human, father?

That's kind of a big deal. Wouldn't you say?

How many "men" do you know that have NO earthly, human, father; that came only from their mother's egg, with no man whatsoever involved in their procreation?

In your very limited Bible experience, have you ever come across the verse that states that "we should not all be teachers"? And that there will be a more severe punishment for those who teach things about God and the Bible that are unbiblical?

Claiming that Jesus is just a "man" is verrry unbiblical.

I didnt say he was just a man--you made that up all on your own.

[Runner]

are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.

No, Jesus is not Michael.

If Jesus is Michael, then Michael is God Almighty. There is just no evidence of that anywhere in Scripture.

Feel free to come discuss this in the thread JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY.
viewtopic.php?t=40380

[Runner]

I didnt say he was just a man--you made that up all on your own.

Okay, let's clarify.

If you say Jesus is not God, what, then, is He?

There are only so many options available.

If He isn't God, and He isn't a man, are you claiming He is a demi-god/idol (demon)?