JESUS IS NOT GOD

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onewithhim
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JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #981

Post by kjw47 »

Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:49 pm are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.
No, Jesus is not Michael.

If Jesus is Michael, then Michael is God Almighty. There is just no evidence of that anywhere in Scripture.

Feel free to come discuss this in the thread JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY.
viewtopic.php?t=40380

Dan 7:13-15--Someone like a son of man( created)gained access to the ancient of days( Jehovah) and was given a kingship( Jesus)
1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel--Does he borrow it from Michael or is it his voice?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #982

Post by kjw47 »

Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:38 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:50 pm I didnt say he was just a man--you made that up all on your own.
Okay, let's clarify.

If you say Jesus is not God, what, then, is He?

There are only so many options available.

If He isn't God, and He isn't a man, are you claiming He is a demi-god/idol (demon)?
He is Gods master worker of Prov 8, he tells there he was created. He gives God all credit for the creation-Coll 1:15--The firstborn of all creation)-All creation happened at the beginning.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #983

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:43 pm
tam wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:19 pm I never said you claimed it. Christ is the One who claimed it (as is written from the Psalms).
If you're referring to Psalm 82,


As well as John 10:35.

They (to whom the Word of God came) were called gods. That did not make them THE God (YHWH).
Some translations use 'g' and some use 'G'. Either way, Christ did not call the men from these verses demons. Nor did He call them THE God (the MOST Holy One, the MOST High God, [YHWH]).
Remind me which verses, please.
The Psalm verse sometimes capitalizes "G" and sometimes does not.

The verse at John 10:35 is never capitalized as far as I know.

Either way - it does not mean that just because someone (even if an angel) is called "god/God" that they are the MOST Holy One of Israel, the Father, [YHWH].

John 1:1 does not state that the Word (Christ) is the MOST High God, the MOST Holy One, the Father, [YHWH].
Also, the verse in Psalm that Christ references called these men (who are called gods) sons of God. Not demons. You are mistaken.
All angels are referred to as sons of God. Job 38:7 shows the Holy angels present at Creation shouting for joy and refers to them as sons of God.
Then that would make all angels out to be gods, but that also contradicts the claim that all little 'g' gods are demons since some angels do indeed serve (faithfully) God and His Son.


Peace again to you.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #984

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:49 pm are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.
No, Jesus is not Michael.
You are correct that Christ is not Michael. He never taught this. No one taught that in what is written (in the bible).

Christ also never taught that He was [YHWH], the MOST Holy One, the Father.


Christ said that He is the SON OF God.


People keep trying to make Him someone other than who He claimed.



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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #985

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:50 pm
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:49 pm are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.
No, Jesus is not Michael.

If Jesus is Michael, then Michael is God Almighty. There is just no evidence of that anywhere in Scripture.

Feel free to come discuss this in the thread JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY.
viewtopic.php?t=40380

Dan 7:13-15--Someone like a son of man( created)gained access to the ancient of days( Jehovah) and was given a kingship( Jesus)
1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel--Does he borrow it from Michael or is it his voice?
He also comes with the trumpet call of God but that does not make Him God.

Michael (the arkangel) announces the return of Christ (the voice of an archangel); the trumpet call announces the return of Christ.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #986

Post by kjw47 »

tam wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:13 pm Peace to you,
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:50 pm
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:49 pm are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.
No, Jesus is not Michael.

If Jesus is Michael, then Michael is God Almighty. There is just no evidence of that anywhere in Scripture.

Feel free to come discuss this in the thread JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY.
viewtopic.php?t=40380

Dan 7:13-15--Someone like a son of man( created)gained access to the ancient of days( Jehovah) and was given a kingship( Jesus)
1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel--Does he borrow it from Michael or is it his voice?
He also comes with the trumpet call of God but that does not make Him God.

Michael (the arkangel) announces the return of Christ (the voice of an archangel); the trumpet call announces the return of Christ.


Peace again to you.

The trumpet announces the ride of the white horse(Rev 6:1)--This is the start of the war in heaven, but notice-he receives his crown, only Jesus gets the crown, yet Michael took that ride--Its the same ride continued at Rev 19:11( Armageddon)-yet Jesus is pictured here. That ride does not end until after Rev 20 is complete. Dan 12:1--It is Michael who stands up for Gods chosen in the last days.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #987

Post by Runner »

kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:50 pmDan 7:13-15--Someone like a son of man( created)gained access to the ancient of days( Jehovah) and was given a kingship( Jesus)
1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel--Does he borrow it from Michael or is it his voice?
Let's clear that up:

Daniel 7:13-14
"I saw in the night visions (seen in a vision), ... one like (with the likeness of) the son of man (Jesus Christ) came with the clouds of heaven ... (only God Almighty - the Father - comes upon the clouds of heaven as seen all throughout the interactions in the wilderness with the Israelites. The pillar of cloud, the cloud that filled the Temple, etc.)

Job 22:14
Job 26:8-9
Job 35:5
Job 36:28-29
Job 37:11, 15-16, 18
Job 38:9, 34, 36-37
Psalm 77:17
Psalm 147:8

... and there was given Him (Jesus) dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations and languages should serve Him (are none serving God Almighty anymore?)"

This kingdom is above ALL kingdoms. That means Jesus sits upon the only throne that exists, the highest throne. What happened to the Father? Did He pass away? Nope.

1 Thess. 4:16
"with the voice of the archangel"

Do a deep dive into the origins of the word archangel and you will find that it can also mean leader of the angels. That's what Lord of Hosts means. It doesn't have to mean the highest angel, or one of the angels, at all. Also, we see that moment echoed in Revelation 19:11-16 where Jesus is the Savior that returns on a white horse with all the armies of heaven following Him as he carries a sword and brings the wrath of Almighty God wearing the name King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

That's clearly not Michael the angel.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #988

Post by Runner »

kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:52 pm
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:38 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:50 pm I didnt say he was just a man--you made that up all on your own.
Okay, let's clarify.

If you say Jesus is not God, what, then, is He?

There are only so many options available.

If He isn't God, and He isn't a man, are you claiming He is a demi-god/idol (demon)?
He is Gods master worker of Prov 8, he tells there he was created. He gives God all credit for the creation-Coll 1:15--The firstborn of all creation)-All creation happened at the beginning.
Nice dodge.

You didn't answer the question.

Would you like to try again.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #989

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:24 pm
tam wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:13 pm Peace to you,
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:50 pm
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:49 pm are one in purpose, but Jesus was clear at John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus---2major points of truth taught by Jesus--The Father is the only true God, and the only true did not come to earth he sent another. See Jesus says you are wrong.
Jesus is Michael, not God.
No, Jesus is not Michael.

If Jesus is Michael, then Michael is God Almighty. There is just no evidence of that anywhere in Scripture.

Feel free to come discuss this in the thread JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY.
viewtopic.php?t=40380

Dan 7:13-15--Someone like a son of man( created)gained access to the ancient of days( Jehovah) and was given a kingship( Jesus)
1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel--Does he borrow it from Michael or is it his voice?
He also comes with the trumpet call of God but that does not make Him God.

Michael (the arkangel) announces the return of Christ (the voice of an archangel); the trumpet call announces the return of Christ.


Peace again to you.
You're doing the same thing as people who claim the trinity is true or that Christ is [YHWH]. You are interpreting and reading INTO the text. But the bottom line is that Christ did not teach this. He did not teach that He is Michael the arkangel; He did not teach that He is [YHWH], and He did not teach that He is part of a trinity. The apostles did not teach these things either.


Christ said that He is the Son of God. The Truth. The Way. The Life. The Light (remember that God brought forth the Light). The Amen. The Word of God.


The trumpet announces the ride of the white horse(Rev 6:1)--This is the start of the war in heaven, but notice-he receives his crown, only Jesus gets the crown, yet Michael took that ride--Its the same ride continued at Rev 19:11( Armageddon)-yet Jesus is pictured here.
A - there is no trumpet at Rev 6:1

B - You have overlooked the point. Christ is not God just because he returns with the trumpet call of God. Just as Christ is not an arkangel just because He returns with the voice of an arkangel.

C - Rev 6 does not state that this is the start of the war in heaven.

D - There is nothing in either Rev 6 or 19 that depicts Michael taking a ride of anything.

E - Rev 19:11 clearly depicts Christ, because the Word of God is Christ (with many crowns). It does not depict Michael. When Michael is doing something (such as fighting with his angels against the Adversary and his angels), Michael is clearly stated as being Michael.

Jude speaks of them both in his letter. First he speaks of Christ (using His name), then he later speaks of the arkangel Michael. He does not speak of them as if they are the same person, because they are two different people.


That ride does not end until after Rev 20 is complete. Dan 12:1--It is Michael who stands up for Gods chosen in the last days.

Daniel speaks of Michael as being one of the chief princes. Meaning there is more than one chief prince. Michael is the chief prince that serves God and Christ (the Chosen One of JAH).


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #990

Post by Runner »

tam wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:05 pm Peace to you,
Runner wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:43 pm
tam wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:19 pm I never said you claimed it. Christ is the One who claimed it (as is written from the Psalms).
If you're referring to Psalm 82,


As well as John 10:35.

They (to whom the Word of God came) were called gods. That did not make them THE God (YHWH).
Some translations use 'g' and some use 'G'. Either way, Christ did not call the men from these verses demons. Nor did He call them THE God (the MOST Holy One, the MOST High God, [YHWH]).
Remind me which verses, please.
The Psalm verse sometimes capitalizes "G" and sometimes does not.

The verse at John 10:35 is never capitalized as far as I know.

Either way - it does not mean that just because someone (even if an angel) is called "god/God" that they are the MOST Holy One of Israel, the Father, [YHWH].

John 1:1 does not state that the Word (Christ) is the MOST High God, the MOST Holy One, the Father, [YHWH].
Also, the verse in Psalm that Christ references called these men (who are called gods) sons of God. Not demons. You are mistaken.
All angels are referred to as sons of God. Job 38:7 shows the Holy angels present at Creation shouting for joy and refers to them as sons of God.
Then that would make all angels out to be gods, but that also contradicts the claim that all little 'g' gods are demons since some angels do indeed serve (faithfully) God and His Son.


Peace again to you.
Sorry, but I feel like you are all over the place.

John 1:1 & 14 states that Jesus Christ, the Word, is God in that He created everything that exists. Looking to Genesis 1:1 that is confirmed. Seeing that God Almighty claims to be the ONLY God (meaning one single individual, not three persons) and the ONLY Savior in Isaiah 43:3, 11, 15 & Isaiah 44:21, logic, and sound division of Scripture, concludes that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.

Everything else you keep bringing up about gods and God, etc. is completely irrelevant.

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