Where do Rights Come From?

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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Purple Knight
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Where do Rights Come From?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

Question for Debate: Where do rights come from?

Put another way, do I ever have a right to just make up rights and unilaterally impose on you not to do things?
I might, for example, make up a right not to hear voices I find annoying and demand they not speak in my presence. I might get offended because I don't like the scent of the air you breathed out so I demand you stop breathing at once. I might take anything in the world I don't like that is bothering me, construct it as something you have done to me, and say I have a legitimate right to be free of whatever that bothersome thing is.

Your right that you have, preventing me from murdering you, does it exist even if I disagree?

A Libertarian will say, rights simply are, and they are what they are, and they are not what they're not. But that just means, in practice, that Libertarians and only Libertarians decide on rights. Maybe rights really are written into the Stone Table at the time when the Deep Magic began the universe, and Libertarians happen to be correct about what they are, but I don't have the Stone Table in front of me to see that they're correct, so as far as I'm concerned I'm under no obligation to go along with their nonsense.

It's tricky business because the lot of you will not agree that I can just decide that the right not to be murdered is invalid and go on a killing spree, but you will disagree with many of the Libertarian's rights-which-simply-are-and-you-can't-contest-them. And if rights simply are, despite objections, then nothing stands in the way of the Libertarian's right to blackmail, because all you can do is object and objections don't invalidate rights.

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Shem Yoshi
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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #21

Post by Shem Yoshi »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:18 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:53 amif they want to restrict the speech of a person, it goes out universally to all people by the definition of liberty. So say one person is annoying another with speech and you restrict that, well anyone that annoys someone else is now in jeopardy of the law.
I wish it were.

I heard a great justification of the idea that this is really not the case, and I have to say I agree with it. They were talking about hate speech, and why white people shouldn't be able to complain.

Let's say I go to a workplace where we horse around. I actually have been as a line cook, and the managers always yelled at us when we started towel snapping and things like that. But nobody said anybody was abusing anyone else, even though we got pretty rough.

Now let's say that one of these fellows had a wife he abused. Let's say she gets the same job and comes to work with him. Let's say he towel snaps her just the same (really hard), but instead of being joking about it, he glares at her.

The same act that is not wrong when it's between people who don't have an unpleasant history, can become wrong when that act is a continuation of previous or ongoing abuse.

I hate that I agree with this reasoning but I can't find a flaw in it. I hate it because I want the rules to be the same for everyone, but I don't think they are.
Well I think anyone's personal opinion can play a role in what they see as right or wrong.

In this case, the snapping of a towel... Is the act of snapping a towel right or wrong? If it is wrong, then even doing it as a joke doesnt elevate its crime. If it is acceptable, then even the personal feeling of the woman after being glared at doesnt make it not acceptable.

But what if the snap of a towel could be right in some instances and wrong in other instance?

In this case, if the woman didnt like it and told the man not to snap her, then it would be wrong to continue the abuse or harassment. But if the friends of the man had fun with snapping each other, there would be no abuse there.

Motives and personal perception can play a role, but ultimately the snapping of the towel is the action in question. Is it right or wrong? And i believe in that case, it could come down to what the person feels.

But lets take murder. Even if the victim is a willing participant, the act of murder is wrong.
Purple Knight wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:18 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:13 pmI was harassed by the authorities because they didnt like what i was doing for whatever personal reasons they had. I broke no laws and was practicing my first amendment.
This is a perfect example of how grey areas work. Who has a right to use the sidewalk and for what? I am also in Colorado and we have homeless people genuinely blocking the way and nobody can do anything because "everyone has a right to use the sidewalk, it's public property." They sleep on the bus benches and nobody else can get in there.

I absolutely believe you that this happened because I know exactly how grey the use of sidewalks is. If somebody doesn't like it, you don't get to use it. But if nobody cares, the use of a sidewalk will turn into an inalienable right that cannot be infringed. If the business is disliked, the peace ring around it will be allowed. If the business is liked, the ring will be dispersed because people have a right to get to it.
Sometimes enduring behavior for the sake of peoples rights is a necessary thing. For example, protesting... Enduring peoples rights, even if it goes against you or you dont like it, is a necessary thing at time.
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”

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