Paradise on Earth

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Paradise on Earth

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2731

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:19 am [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2724]
Believing involves more than just a shallow agreement. One must follow what Christ has said as well. If we truly believe we will listen to His words and apply them in our lives. After all, James wrote: "Just as the body without breath is dead, so also faith without works is dead." (James 2:26)
You are arguing against yourself. You first quoted John 3:15-16 saying "whoever believes may in Him have eternal life", inferring that you simply had to "believe" to escape death, which is not in line with the original saying that even though one dies, they will live (John 11:25), which is quite different from escaping death. As for if one believes Yeshua, as to gaining life, one must keep the commandments (Matthew 19:16-17), and if one wants to "follow Me (Yeshua)" and be "perfect", one must sell all he has and give it to the poor and then follow me (Matthew 19:21).

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2732

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:14 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:49 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:21 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:02 pm
Gospel: the Christian message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation.

If Paul's gospel of grace in the New Testament is false, then what is the true gospel message according to 2ndpillar2?

2ndpillar2 wrote:
The "message of the son of man", which is the "kingdom" . . .

The Gospel is a kingdom by definition.

Do you have any idea which kingdom it is, what the message of Christ is, and how salvation is gained or lost?
Whose definition? The message of Yeshua was the kingdom as defined by Daniel 2:44-45, Ezekiel 34, Ezekiel 37:15-28, Zechariah 14:16, Matthew 24:29-30 and Revelation 19:13-15, whereas the "Word of God", as the son of man, as David's seed, who will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron from Jerusalem, "immediately after the tribulation", while being the king of the combined house of Judah and Ephraim. Being "saved" as introduced by Joel 2:3, is "surviving"/"escaping" the "day of the LORD", would be the "saved" of Matthew 24:13, which is reserved for those who "endure to the end". The one who turns from "wickedness"/lawlessness (in line with the false gospel of grace), will escape destruction (Ezekiel 33:19).
The Jerusalem from which Jesus will rule is the heavenly Jerusalem, not the earthly one. All the wicked of the nations will be gone when Armageddon is over with, and the ones rightly disposed for salvation will be ruled over (on the earth) by Jesus from heavenly Jerusalem. (Galatians 4:26) That is the Kingdom message. That includes the necessity of everyone accepting Jesus' redemption work when he was on the earth (dying for our sins).
Yeshua now sits in heaven until the LORD makes his enemies a footstool for his feet (Psalms 110:1), and he will then "rule in the midst of thine enemies", for which there will be no "enemies" in heaven at that time. The "enemies", the nations/Gentiles will be on earth. The "King" will rule from Jerusalem which is among the nations/Gentile that are "left"/survive (Zechariah 14:16), and the "King" will require the nations to keep the feast of Booths, or have no rain, such as being ruled by a rod of iron by the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13-15) whereas their land will become as iron with no rain. And that "king" will be David (seed of David), ruling the combined house of Judah and Ephraim, in the land given to Jacob, which is on earth, and they will keep "My statutes" (Ezekiel 37:22-25). If the JWs survive and don't keep the feast of Booths, they will be living in a living hell, with no rain. (Zechariah 14:16).

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2733

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:06 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:01 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:02 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:03 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:11 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2714]

Gospel: the Christian message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation.

If Paul's gospel of grace in the New Testament is false, then what is the true gospel message according to 2ndpillar2?

Thanks.
The "message of the son of man", which is the "kingdom" per Matthew 13:11-13, which is presented in "parables", which are not understood by the "wicked", such as those who "commit lawlessness", such as the false gospel of grace/cross (Matthew 13:41 & Isaiah 6:9 & Daniel 12:10).
There are many kingdoms.
So say the Mormons, but I didn't realize that was a teaching of the JWs.
It is not a teaching of the JWs.
You said "there are many kingdoms", which in fact is a teaching of the Mormons.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2734

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:03 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:37 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:46 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:19 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:43 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:21 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:32 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2706]

I'm sorry, when somebody keeps saying that Paul was a false apostle, I have no further interest in discussing anything with them. I can't get past your first sentence.
That is probably because your church is built upon the foundation of Paul's false gospel of grace. Regardless of whether you listen or not, the "house" built on "sand" will "fall" (Matthew 7:24-27).

Paul wrote the vast majority of the New Testament, 13 of the 27 different books.

Is the entire New Testament of the Bible a "false gospel of grace"?
According to Yeshua in Matthew 13, the NT is a composite of the "message of the enemy/devil", the "tare seed", planted "among" the "message of the son of man", the good/wheat seed. The "tare" seed would also include the messages of the associates of Paul, which would make it composed of more than 50% of the tare seed, the "message" of the false gospel of grace, a "covenant with death" (Isaiah 28:15-18).
As I have explained, the "tares" are the apostate "Christians" that practically smothered the good "wheat" which is the true sons of the kingdom. It pictures the situation of Apostasy in the world today. False Christians almost overwhelming the true Christians. No way does Jesus say that the tares are the New Testament! That's a real stretch!
The "tares", "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), such as believe in the false gospel of grace, are the product of the "tare" seed, the message of lawlessness, which is the message of the "enemy"/"devil", which was "sown" "among" the "good seed", the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:25). The seeds of both were "sown" in the same "field"/book/NT. The NT canon was enumerated by a Catholic bishop in 367 A.D. and was edited by the Roman Catholic church, a daughter of Babylon (Revelation 17:3-4), whose authority originated by way of the kingdom of Rome, whose authority came by way of the "dragon" (Revelation 13:4).
The tares are simply the apostate "Christians" that reared their heads mightily after the first century and the death of the last Apostle. We have seen the Apostate Church taking over a third of the people on the earth, practically overwhelming the true sons of the Kingdom. These "tares" will be shown up in the last days, in which we now live, to be what they are---false Christians. And God wouldn't be so remiss as to allow his Bible to be full of false messages. I believe that it is what he wants it to be at this time.
You seem to "believe" a lot of things which are not true. What Yeshua said was that the "man" sowed good seed, and the "enemy" came at night and sowed "damel" (a weed resembling wheat"), and when the wheat sprang up, then the tares became evident also (Matthew 13:25-26), and that in a parallel parable, the "tares" were compared to "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), as with the false gospel of grace, and with the "wicked", those who commit lawlessness per (Matthew 13:49-50). The "good seed" is the message of the "son of man" (Matthew 13:37) and the tares are the result of the message of the "devil" (Matthew 13:39). Your "Christians" are simply of the Gentile church, which was grown from the message of the false prophet Paul, and the fruit of that true is apparently rotten (Matthew 7:13-23). The Roman Catholic (universal Christian) pope, the supposed heir of Peter, is now declaring sex between men as not being unlawful, and declaring that the Vatican is full of demons. I guess I will have to agree about the demons. I guess he has gone full California Progressive. Pelosi apparently has ordered her house to have its demons cast out. Apparently, the Methodist and other Gentile churches have taken the same "wide" "way" (Matthew 7:13-14), not that some are not resisting the further progress down the road to hell, from the purgatory they now apparently live in.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2735

Post by SacredBishop »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:17 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:03 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:37 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:46 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:19 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:43 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:21 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:32 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2706]

I'm sorry, when somebody keeps saying that Paul was a false apostle, I have no further interest in discussing anything with them. I can't get past your first sentence.
That is probably because your church is built upon the foundation of Paul's false gospel of grace. Regardless of whether you listen or not, the "house" built on "sand" will "fall" (Matthew 7:24-27).

Paul wrote the vast majority of the New Testament, 13 of the 27 different books.

Is the entire New Testament of the Bible a "false gospel of grace"?
According to Yeshua in Matthew 13, the NT is a composite of the "message of the enemy/devil", the "tare seed", planted "among" the "message of the son of man", the good/wheat seed. The "tare" seed would also include the messages of the associates of Paul, which would make it composed of more than 50% of the tare seed, the "message" of the false gospel of grace, a "covenant with death" (Isaiah 28:15-18).
As I have explained, the "tares" are the apostate "Christians" that practically smothered the good "wheat" which is the true sons of the kingdom. It pictures the situation of Apostasy in the world today. False Christians almost overwhelming the true Christians. No way does Jesus say that the tares are the New Testament! That's a real stretch!
The "tares", "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), such as believe in the false gospel of grace, are the product of the "tare" seed, the message of lawlessness, which is the message of the "enemy"/"devil", which was "sown" "among" the "good seed", the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:25). The seeds of both were "sown" in the same "field"/book/NT. The NT canon was enumerated by a Catholic bishop in 367 A.D. and was edited by the Roman Catholic church, a daughter of Babylon (Revelation 17:3-4), whose authority originated by way of the kingdom of Rome, whose authority came by way of the "dragon" (Revelation 13:4).
The tares are simply the apostate "Christians" that reared their heads mightily after the first century and the death of the last Apostle. We have seen the Apostate Church taking over a third of the people on the earth, practically overwhelming the true sons of the Kingdom. These "tares" will be shown up in the last days, in which we now live, to be what they are---false Christians. And God wouldn't be so remiss as to allow his Bible to be full of false messages. I believe that it is what he wants it to be at this time.
You seem to "believe" a lot of things which are not true. What Yeshua said was that the "man" sowed good seed, and the "enemy" came at night and sowed "damel" (a weed resembling wheat"), and when the wheat sprang up, then the tares became evident also (Matthew 13:25-26), and that in a parallel parable, the "tares" were compared to "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), as with the false gospel of grace, and with the "wicked", those who commit lawlessness per (Matthew 13:49-50). The "good seed" is the message of the "son of man" (Matthew 13:37) and the tares are the result of the message of the "devil" (Matthew 13:39). Your "Christians" are simply of the Gentile church, which was grown from the message of the false prophet Paul, and the fruit of that true is apparently rotten (Matthew 7:13-23). The Roman Catholic (universal Christian) pope, the supposed heir of Peter, is now declaring sex between men as not being unlawful, and declaring that the Vatican is full of demons. I guess I will have to agree about the demons. I guess he has gone full California Progressive. Pelosi apparently has ordered her house to have its demons cast out. Apparently, the Methodist and other Gentile churches have taken the same "wide" "way" (Matthew 7:13-14), not that some are not resisting the further progress down the road to hell, from the purgatory they now apparently live in.
Paul was Jesus's favorite apostle. Peter and James are the apostates Galatian's 2:11-14. I Peter's two books and James's book are heretical. Peter and James sowed the tares of false doctrine.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2736

Post by myth-one.com »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:56 pm You said "there are many kingdoms", which in fact is a teaching of the Mormons.
Eh, actually I said that -- not Onewithhim.

And it is true.

There is the Kingdom of God, the kingdom of man, the animal kingdom, the vegetable kingdom, and hundreds of sub kingdoms within the kingdom of man.

Perhaps one "many" was not sufficient.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2737

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

SacredBishop wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:29 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:17 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:03 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:37 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:46 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:19 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:43 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:21 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:32 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2706]

I'm sorry, when somebody keeps saying that Paul was a false apostle, I have no further interest in discussing anything with them. I can't get past your first sentence.
That is probably because your church is built upon the foundation of Paul's false gospel of grace. Regardless of whether you listen or not, the "house" built on "sand" will "fall" (Matthew 7:24-27).

Paul wrote the vast majority of the New Testament, 13 of the 27 different books.

Is the entire New Testament of the Bible a "false gospel of grace"?
According to Yeshua in Matthew 13, the NT is a composite of the "message of the enemy/devil", the "tare seed", planted "among" the "message of the son of man", the good/wheat seed. The "tare" seed would also include the messages of the associates of Paul, which would make it composed of more than 50% of the tare seed, the "message" of the false gospel of grace, a "covenant with death" (Isaiah 28:15-18).
As I have explained, the "tares" are the apostate "Christians" that practically smothered the good "wheat" which is the true sons of the kingdom. It pictures the situation of Apostasy in the world today. False Christians almost overwhelming the true Christians. No way does Jesus say that the tares are the New Testament! That's a real stretch!
The "tares", "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), such as believe in the false gospel of grace, are the product of the "tare" seed, the message of lawlessness, which is the message of the "enemy"/"devil", which was "sown" "among" the "good seed", the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:25). The seeds of both were "sown" in the same "field"/book/NT. The NT canon was enumerated by a Catholic bishop in 367 A.D. and was edited by the Roman Catholic church, a daughter of Babylon (Revelation 17:3-4), whose authority originated by way of the kingdom of Rome, whose authority came by way of the "dragon" (Revelation 13:4).
The tares are simply the apostate "Christians" that reared their heads mightily after the first century and the death of the last Apostle. We have seen the Apostate Church taking over a third of the people on the earth, practically overwhelming the true sons of the Kingdom. These "tares" will be shown up in the last days, in which we now live, to be what they are---false Christians. And God wouldn't be so remiss as to allow his Bible to be full of false messages. I believe that it is what he wants it to be at this time.
You seem to "believe" a lot of things which are not true. What Yeshua said was that the "man" sowed good seed, and the "enemy" came at night and sowed "damel" (a weed resembling wheat"), and when the wheat sprang up, then the tares became evident also (Matthew 13:25-26), and that in a parallel parable, the "tares" were compared to "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), as with the false gospel of grace, and with the "wicked", those who commit lawlessness per (Matthew 13:49-50). The "good seed" is the message of the "son of man" (Matthew 13:37) and the tares are the result of the message of the "devil" (Matthew 13:39). Your "Christians" are simply of the Gentile church, which was grown from the message of the false prophet Paul, and the fruit of that true is apparently rotten (Matthew 7:13-23). The Roman Catholic (universal Christian) pope, the supposed heir of Peter, is now declaring sex between men as not being unlawful, and declaring that the Vatican is full of demons. I guess I will have to agree about the demons. I guess he has gone full California Progressive. Pelosi apparently has ordered her house to have its demons cast out. Apparently, the Methodist and other Gentile churches have taken the same "wide" "way" (Matthew 7:13-14), not that some are not resisting the further progress down the road to hell, from the purgatory they now apparently live in.
Paul was Jesus's favorite apostle. Peter and James are the apostates Galatian's 2:11-14. I Peter's two books and James's book are heretical. Peter and James sowed the tares of false doctrine.
Actually, Galatians 2:11-14 refers to the "reputed" "pillars", as a snide remark with respect to James, Peter and John, who set Paul in his place by having made Paul's intimate friend Titus, circumcised. For Paul (Zechariah 11:10) is one of the "shepherds"/"staffs", taken to "pasture" the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7) for he was the "staff" taken to "break my covenant" with all the peoples, which was the covenant of circumcision made with Abraham, the "father of nations (all the peoples)". (Zechariah 11:10). Peter is simply the "stumbling block to me" (Matthew 16:23) who was called the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:16-17) who wouldn't feed, care or tend the sheep, and the 2nd staff taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter", the destruction of the Gentile nations which come up against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-2 & Daniel 2:44-45), who will all be crushed at the same time, which according to Zechariah 14:12, will include what appears to be radiation poisoning. Maybe one of the Russian super electromagnetic nuclear bombs will go off over Syria when in route to Jerusalem, being that the Russians, in respect to their leaders being in the realm of the Kaiser/Caesar of the iron portion of the kingdoms to be crushed. (Daniel 2:44-45). As with respect to Peter and books, 2 Peters was most probably written by some unknown author after Peter's death, and as Peter was a fisherman in the 1st century, any writing would not have been by him. The tares sowed by the "enemy" were compared to "those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41), which would have been the false gospel of grace, and not with regard to the "works" required by James. And Paul's position of being built on a sand foundation (Matthew 7:23) would be the foundation set up by 2 Peter 3:15.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2738

Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:41 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:19 am [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2724]
Believing involves more than just a shallow agreement. One must follow what Christ has said as well. If we truly believe we will listen to His words and apply them in our lives. After all, James wrote: "Just as the body without breath is dead, so also faith without works is dead." (James 2:26)
You are arguing against yourself. You first quoted John 3:15-16 saying "whoever believes may in Him have eternal life", inferring that you simply had to "believe" to escape death, which is not in line with the original saying that even though one dies, they will live (John 11:25), which is quite different from escaping death. As for if one believes Yeshua, as to gaining life, one must keep the commandments (Matthew 19:16-17), and if one wants to "follow Me (Yeshua)" and be "perfect", one must sell all he has and give it to the poor and then follow me (Matthew 19:21).
I don't see at all how I contradicted myself.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2739

Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:56 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:06 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:01 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:02 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:03 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:11 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2714]

Gospel: the Christian message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation.

If Paul's gospel of grace in the New Testament is false, then what is the true gospel message according to 2ndpillar2?

Thanks.
The "message of the son of man", which is the "kingdom" per Matthew 13:11-13, which is presented in "parables", which are not understood by the "wicked", such as those who "commit lawlessness", such as the false gospel of grace/cross (Matthew 13:41 & Isaiah 6:9 & Daniel 12:10).
There are many kingdoms.
There are only many kingdoms NOW, on this earth, that soon God will destroy and set up his own Kingdom over the earth. (Daniel 2:44) There is only one Kingdom of God.
It is not a teaching of the JWs.
You said "there are many kingdoms", which in fact is a teaching of the Mormons.
No, I didn't say that. There are many kingdoms NOW on this earth, but they will be destroyed by God and his Son and God will set up his own Kingdom to rule over the earth (Daniel 2:44).

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2740

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:51 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:56 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:06 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:01 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:02 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:03 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:11 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #2714]

Gospel: the Christian message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation.

If Paul's gospel of grace in the New Testament is false, then what is the true gospel message according to 2ndpillar2?

Thanks.
The "message of the son of man", which is the "kingdom" per Matthew 13:11-13, which is presented in "parables", which are not understood by the "wicked", such as those who "commit lawlessness", such as the false gospel of grace/cross (Matthew 13:41 & Isaiah 6:9 & Daniel 12:10).
There are many kingdoms.
There are only many kingdoms NOW, on this earth, that soon God will destroy and set up his own Kingdom over the earth. (Daniel 2:44) There is only one Kingdom of God.
It is not a teaching of the JWs.
You said "there are many kingdoms", which in fact is a teaching of the Mormons.
No, I didn't say that. There are many kingdoms NOW on this earth, but they will be destroyed by God and his Son and God will set up his own Kingdom to rule over the earth (Daniel 2:44).
Apparently, it was a different JW, myth-one who said that. According to Daniel 2:45, the kingdoms of Daniel 2:44 involved the kingdoms of gold (Babylon), the kingdom of silver (Persia), the kingdom of bronze (Greeks), the clay (which would be the Muslims), and the iron (Rome), whereas the "stone" which is to crush them (Isaiah 28:16) has little to do with the JW church, which has accepted the "deception" stemming from the "covenant with death" (Isaiah 28:18), the false gospel of grace, which "shall be cancelled".

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