#2 Practical Christianity: the practical benefits of repentance

[Wootah]

Hi all,

I want to create a mini-series over time that can discuss/explore/debate the practical benefits of Christianity. I am trying in this series to make Christianity make sense to my fellow forum goers and why thinking a certain way could help them.

In this thread, I want to discuss: the practical benefits of repentance.

For me, repentance has been the single biggest benefit of Christianity to me. At the trivial level I take on tasks and after completing them allow myself to be critiqued and think about how to do them better. Things I had failed at, long ago, like playing an instrument, I have started again. I have been able to challenge my identity and who I am and been able to change that identity because every time I fail I know I can repent whereas I was not humble enough without Christianity to go back and make these changes. Without a loving father, that wants me to change, without a son that shows me the way, without a spirit helping me to take the steps required - I don't think I ever would have.

Does the Christian idea of repentance have practical benefits? Does anyone want to discuss the downsides of repentance?

nb:
1- Please consider strong manning Christianity and the topic concept if you intend to debate.
2- please argue with reasons

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #10]


Yes. We all start off irreligious at least until taught religion. I do mean 'thinking atheists', and those who have used the 'I used to be an atheist...'apologetic are implying that they looked at the arguments and were persuaded to Christianity. But they show no idea of the arguments (the Lee Strobel Gambit or ploy) or what they felt as an atheist, which means that they either have terrible memories or really never were a "Thinking" atheist and they are pulling a fast one. I'm betting on the latter.

And, yes, I think you have a point with religious -institution repentance. Without the caveats and the possible less good side -effects, a celestial CCTV (or belief in one) may make people behave where otherwise they might not.

As was said earlier and before now "I really hope you stay a Christian..." where a poster or debator has sworn that without Jesus in their life they would run amok on an orgy of rapine and plunder.

[benchwarmer]

As was said earlier and before now "I really hope you stay a Christian..." where a poster or debator has sworn that without Jesus in their life they would run amok on an orgy of rapine and plunder.

Yes, I've used that one myself in the past when a theist implies that atheists have no morals or reasons to 'behave'. People who need a god to act morally should definitely remain theists. I have no desire to deconvert anyone. Deconversion should be something that is arrived at naturally. Like when you discover "Santa's" gifts under your parent's bed before Christmas.

[TRANSPONDER]

As was said earlier and before now "I really hope you stay a Christian..." where a poster or debator has sworn that without Jesus in their life they would run amok on an orgy of rapine and plunder.

Yes, I've used that one myself in the past when a theist implies that atheists have no morals or reasons to 'behave'. People who need a god to act morally should definitely remain theists. I have no desire to deconvert anyone. Deconversion should be something that is arrived at naturally. Like when you discover "Santa's" gifts under your parent's bed before Christmas.

I agree. In fact it seems that you can't deconvert anyone; they can only do it themselves. But they need to be given something to work with. Sure, they can have doubts and questions, but the Apologists have 2,000 years of excuses to fall back on, and without anyone to show they do not actually work or to provide a home and support for anyone who reconsiders what they were taught, it must be tough to keep on and not just slide back into the only community on offer.

Which is why discussions like this happen and the idea is not to get the other one to change their minds, but to make sure that both sides of the debate get put, and hopefully get out. Now, I'm making no claims; great minds think alike, but i can recall when I started posting why the morality argument failed, now it is better known than it was. I recall when I argued that the cetan sequence proved speciation. Now that argument is better known. I can remember when i first proposed that Jesus and Barrabbas were the same person, now I have seen that idea pop up elsewhere. So long as the ideas get out that's fine, and we just don't get one sided argument being the only one that gets heard.

[Wootah]

Does the Christian idea of repentance have practical benefits?

Only to folks who think there's a god fretting what it is they do.

To others, repentance is simply a realization our actions have consequences.

Does anyone want to discuss the downsides of repentance?

Allowing the mind to succumb to irrational belif in magical, mythical men.

Might as well fret what the Martians have to think.

I think that is an issue for all people. To be honest I think we mostly live in the past and in fantasy and so our minds are full of magical mythical men (usually ourselves).

Projection is not a valid argument.

Well, you just rebutted yourself so I will leave it at that.

[Wootah]

But in any case, it's recognising that mumbling prayers does nothing, especially if no restitution is made. Jesus forgives you, so the injured party doesn't have to. Again, I'm sure you can point to Bible, and examples of restitution and forgiveness, but you can't say that the other doesn't happen.

Yes, faith without works is dead. Mind you I am trying to make this a practical thread.

For instance, if we go to school and say 'we know everything. this person can teach me nothing', then we will likely not learn as much as if we say, 'I don't know maths, I repent of this, please teach me maths.'

I am in a state of not math, I am sorry for that state, I want to learn math.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #13]

I have created a thread for you guys to give evidence for your basis of morality.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40408

[JoeyKnothead]

Does the Christian idea of repentance have practical benefits?

Only to folks who think there's a god fretting what it is they do.

To others, repentance is simply a realization our actions have consequences.

Does anyone want to discuss the downsides of repentance?

Allowing the mind to succumb to irrational belif in magical, mythical men.

Might as well fret what the Martians have to think.

I think that is an issue for all people. To be honest I think we mostly live in the past and in fantasy and so our minds are full of magical mythical men (usually ourselves).

Projection is not a valid argument.

Well, you just rebutted yourself so I will leave it at that.

I don't believe in the existence of magical mythical men, so the charge of projection on my part is incorrect.

This is important for me to stress because all too often some seek to declare what others must believe, in a vain attempt to burn down a strawman.

It's an insult of a tactic, and you should be ashamed for it.

[Wootah]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #17]

I'll not back down from politely showing the emperor has no clothes.

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #17]

I'll not back down from politely showing the emperor has no clothes.

Of course the theist thinks it's perfectly acceptable to accuse atheists of believing in magical mythical men. They can't image a world where everyone else's thoughts ain't as goofy as their own.

Projection is a poor form of debate, and exposes the theist's poor reasoning skills when they employ it as their means of debate.

I can no more believe in magical mythical men as I can believe some ancient married chick got knocked up by one.