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I wasn't aware Christ was thinking of me when he went to the cross till a man at work walked up and told me. That was quite a eureka moment because I knew Jesus died for the sins of the world but didn't think it was for anybody in particular. In point of fact, I had been brought up to feel pity for Christ as a victim of unfortunate circumstances beyond his control. Had that man not taken the initiative to speak with me, I might've never known the truth.
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When Preachers Are Necessary.
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WebersHome
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #2.
Some years ago I heard of an exchange between a preacher and a young inquirer that went something like this:
YOUTH: What would I have to do that's so bad I'd go to Hell?
PREACHER: You don't have to do anything at all; just bide your time and you'll get there.
YOUTH: How so?
PREACHER: Hell is the default, whereas Heaven is an option. In other words; all that's required to end up in Hell is indifference.
● Matt 13:15 . . For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
* The worst possible place someone should choose to seek a preacher is in Hell because "too late" is not the best time to discover how narrowly one has missed the train.
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Some years ago I heard of an exchange between a preacher and a young inquirer that went something like this:
YOUTH: What would I have to do that's so bad I'd go to Hell?
PREACHER: You don't have to do anything at all; just bide your time and you'll get there.
YOUTH: How so?
PREACHER: Hell is the default, whereas Heaven is an option. In other words; all that's required to end up in Hell is indifference.
● Matt 13:15 . . For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
* The worst possible place someone should choose to seek a preacher is in Hell because "too late" is not the best time to discover how narrowly one has missed the train.
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Miles
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #3And isn't that nice. God decided to send everyone to eternal damnation for no better reason than that they were born——"Hell is the default"——Unless, that is, a person 1. hears about god's escape clause and 2. chooses to follow it, which leaves A. the ignorant (those who never got the message) and B. those who aren't sold on it (because god's lame spokesmen failed to do their job of convincing people of the truth of the escape clause) to bask in the everlasting fires of Hell.WebersHome wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:45 am .
Some years ago I heard of an exchange between a preacher and a young inquirer that went something like this:
YOUTH: What would I have to do that's so bad I'd go to Hell?
PREACHER: You don't have to do anything at all; just bide your time and you'll get there.
YOUTH: How so?
PREACHER: Hell is the default, whereas Heaven is an option. In other words; all that's required to end up in Hell is indifference.
● Matt 13:15 . . For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
* The worst possible place someone should choose to seek a preacher is in Hell because "too late" is not the best time to discover how narrowly one has missed the train.
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Nice guy, this god of yours.
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WebersHome
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #4.
● Acts 8:30-31 . . Philip ran over and heard the man reading from the prophet Isaiah; so he asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?" The man replied, "How can I, when there is no one to instruct me?"
The man with whom Philip dialogued wasn't some obscure cobalt miner in the Democratic Republic of Congo or an illiterate cow poke herding beef in Montana. The man was high up in the government of Ethiopia; so it's likely he had an above-average IQ, and yet without someone to help him, he was stumped by Isa 53:7-8.
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● Acts 8:30-31 . . Philip ran over and heard the man reading from the prophet Isaiah; so he asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?" The man replied, "How can I, when there is no one to instruct me?"
The man with whom Philip dialogued wasn't some obscure cobalt miner in the Democratic Republic of Congo or an illiterate cow poke herding beef in Montana. The man was high up in the government of Ethiopia; so it's likely he had an above-average IQ, and yet without someone to help him, he was stumped by Isa 53:7-8.
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Miles
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #5Your point being that once in a while someone hears about god's escape clause and chooses to follow it? Okay, but this still leaves millions of As and Bs to bask in the everlasting fires of Hell.WebersHome wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:24 pm .
● Acts 8:30-31 . . Philip ran over and heard the man reading from the prophet Isaiah; so he asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?" The man replied, "How can I, when there is no one to instruct me?"
The man with whom Philip dialogued wasn't some obscure cobalt miner in the Democratic Republic of Congo or an illiterate cow poke herding beef in Montana. The man was high up in the government of Ethiopia; so it's likely he had an above-average IQ, and yet without someone to help him, he was stumped by Isa 53:7-8.
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WebersHome
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #6.
● Acts 19:1-2 . . While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them: Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They answered: No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.
Those folks were disciples, but not Jesus' disciples 'cause had they been, they would've been endowed with his spirit. That was a lucky encounter for those people, and Paul of course straightaway took some time to get them connected with Christ. I mean, after all, isn't that what preachers sign on for?
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● Acts 19:1-2 . . While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them: Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They answered: No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.
Those folks were disciples, but not Jesus' disciples 'cause had they been, they would've been endowed with his spirit. That was a lucky encounter for those people, and Paul of course straightaway took some time to get them connected with Christ. I mean, after all, isn't that what preachers sign on for?
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Miles
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #7Interesting because the Bible I just looked at identifies these disciples as "followers of the Lord."WebersHome wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:30 am .
● Acts 19:1-2 . . While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them: Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They answered: No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.
Those folks were disciples, but not Jesus' disciples 'cause had they been, they would've been endowed with his spirit. That was a lucky encounter for those people, and Paul of course straightaway took some time to get them connected with Christ. I mean, after all, isn't that what preachers sign on for?
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Acts 19:1-2
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was in the city of Corinth, Paul was visiting some places on his way to Ephesus. In Ephesus he found some other followers of the Lord. 2 He asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
These followers said to him, “We have never even heard of a Holy Spirit!”
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was in the city of Corinth, Paul was visiting some places on his way to Ephesus. In Ephesus he found some other followers of the Lord. 2 He asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
These followers said to him, “We have never even heard of a Holy Spirit!”
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WebersHome
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #8.
"followers of the Lord' is an arbitrary translation of a nondescript Greek word that simply means pupil.
Also: I checked an interlinear and verified that a Greek word for "Lord" is nowhere to be found in Acts 19:1-2
* The people with whom Paul spoke didn't become Jesus' followers until the fifth verse.
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"followers of the Lord' is an arbitrary translation of a nondescript Greek word that simply means pupil.
Also: I checked an interlinear and verified that a Greek word for "Lord" is nowhere to be found in Acts 19:1-2
* The people with whom Paul spoke didn't become Jesus' followers until the fifth verse.
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Miles
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #9Heck, most of the Bible is filled with arbitrary translations. Take Philippians 3:8 where σκύβαλον (skybalon) has been translated asWebersHome wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:15 pm .
"followers of the Lord' is an arbitrary translation of a nondescript Greek word that simply means pupil.
"dung" 11 times
"refuse" 4 times
"garbage" 10 times
"rubbish" 13 times
"filth" 2 times
"trash" 6 times
"worthless" 2 times
"less than nothing" 3 times
"manure" 1 time
"waste" 1 time
"dirt" 1 time
"sewer trash" 1 time.
"refuse" 4 times
"garbage" 10 times
"rubbish" 13 times
"filth" 2 times
"trash" 6 times
"worthless" 2 times
"less than nothing" 3 times
"manure" 1 time
"waste" 1 time
"dirt" 1 time
"sewer trash" 1 time.
Or what Noah was told to use when building the ark in Genesis 6:14.
"wood"
CEB
"so make a wooden ark. Make the ark with nesting places and cover it inside and out with tar."
"good lumber"
CEV
"Get some good lumber and build a boat. Put rooms in it and cover it with tar inside and out."
"gopherwood"
KJ21
"Make thee an ark of gopherwood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt cover it within and without with pitch."
"cypress wood"
ERV
"Use cypress wood and build a boat for yourself. Make rooms in the boat and cover it with tar inside and out."
"pine trees"
GNV
" Make thee an Ark of pine trees: thou shalt make cabins in the Ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch."
"resinous wood"
TLB
"Make a boat from resinous wood, sealing it with tar; and construct decks and stalls throughout the ship."
"teakwood"
MSG
“Build yourself a ship from teakwood. Make rooms in it. Coat it with pitch inside and out."
CEB
"so make a wooden ark. Make the ark with nesting places and cover it inside and out with tar."
"good lumber"
CEV
"Get some good lumber and build a boat. Put rooms in it and cover it with tar inside and out."
"gopherwood"
KJ21
"Make thee an ark of gopherwood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt cover it within and without with pitch."
"cypress wood"
ERV
"Use cypress wood and build a boat for yourself. Make rooms in the boat and cover it with tar inside and out."
"pine trees"
GNV
" Make thee an Ark of pine trees: thou shalt make cabins in the Ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch."
"resinous wood"
TLB
"Make a boat from resinous wood, sealing it with tar; and construct decks and stalls throughout the ship."
"teakwood"
MSG
“Build yourself a ship from teakwood. Make rooms in it. Coat it with pitch inside and out."
And FYI, they're not the same.
Gopherwood: Torreya taxifolia
Cypress: Taxodium distichum
Pine: Pinus spp
Teak: Tectona grandis
Cypress: Taxodium distichum
Pine: Pinus spp
Teak: Tectona grandis
Moreover, look what god said to construct for living quarters in the ark.
"nesting places"
"rooms."
"cabins"
"stalls"
"cells"*
"compartments"*
"dwelling places"*
*unlisted Bibles
"rooms."
"cabins"
"stalls"
"cells"*
"compartments"*
"dwelling places"*
*unlisted Bibles
Crazy right! But even crazier yet is that the Hebrew word translated into "rooms," "stalls," "nests," "compartments," and "cells, was קֵן (qēn) meaning "Nest"!!
So why did the four Bibles above purposely ignore the meaning of קֵן and opt for something quite different? Who knows, but all of the above just goes to show how unreliable the Bible can be.
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WebersHome
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Re: When Preachers Are Necessary.
Post #10.
● Gen 6:3 . . My spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal
The Hebrew word translated "contend" basically refers to law and order. In other words: God's spirit was preaching to folk on up to the time of the Flood.
FAQ: Did the people hear an audible voice?
REPLY: Yes, but it wasn't the Spirit's voice, rather, it was Noah's (2Pet 2:5)
The reason given for not contending with people forever is that people don't live forever. In other words: the time for folks to listen to preaching is now; before a Flood, viz: before something takes them away of a sudden.
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● Gen 6:3 . . My spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal
The Hebrew word translated "contend" basically refers to law and order. In other words: God's spirit was preaching to folk on up to the time of the Flood.
FAQ: Did the people hear an audible voice?
REPLY: Yes, but it wasn't the Spirit's voice, rather, it was Noah's (2Pet 2:5)
The reason given for not contending with people forever is that people don't live forever. In other words: the time for folks to listen to preaching is now; before a Flood, viz: before something takes them away of a sudden.
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