Was Jesus homeless? Matthew 8:20

[Thomas123]

Matthew 8:20

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Is this quote simply about accomodation or can we reasonably apply metaphor to it?

What do you think?

Thanks!

[TRANSPONDER]

Matthew 8:20

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Is this quote simply about accomodation or can we reasonably apply metaphor to it?

What do you think?

Thanks!

The two questions that occur to me are 'Context'and 'did Jesus say it, or Matthew?' That is, does anyone else have that quote? Let's see.

Matthew 8 18 Now when Jesus saw a crowd around him, he gave orders to go over to the other side. 19 And a scribe came up and said to him, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” 20 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.” 21 Another of the disciples said to him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” 22 And Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead.”

Right. Now I recall that this is matched in Luke at the departure for Jerusalem. So classic "Q" material - only in Matthew and Luke (1) and used in different contexts. The context appears (in Matthew) to imply that one has to give up everything when they follow Jesus; they have no home, no family, scrip, purse, shoes or staff as everything has been put into the common purse of the Society, which is now all the home he has.

Let us see how Luke uses it. Luke 8.12 has the 'other side' also as the country of the 'Gerasenes' (which seems a mistake making Gadara, which is a bit inland, for Jerash, which is a long way inland). The passage in question is 9. 57 in the context of departing for Jerusalem.

57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.” 58 Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
59 He said to another man, “Follow me.” But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”
61 Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family.” 62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

Luke certainly puts it into a context of dedication to the Community and forget about family and friends, and that is also found in the passages where the family comes to call for him and he says his followers are his family. 'Nuff Sed, as the saying goes, but I say unto you, Friends, until you understand the construction of the Gospels, you can never hope to understand the meaning of these passages, especially when taken out of the context.


(1) but see Mark 6.14,which seems to use the 'other side'as the 'other side' of Lake Galilee, to Bethsaida. in the departure for Jerusalem (Mark 10) they just go there. In Matthew, the 'other side' appears to be the country of the Gadarenes. In the departure for Jerusalem, he just goes there (19.1) as it also is in Mark.

[Thomas123]

Tremendous knowledge displayed here, TRANSPONDER.

I have been watching the debating modus of a learned friend of ours on another thread. He/She (?)

They suck the life out of debate like a Harry Potter dementor. I am going to do the same here, as an experiment. Perhaps the logic of this approach, is that if you go too fast you will, inevitably, miss important aspects of the journey, a bit like brushing a floor,....enough dribble!

Let's, temporarily, bin all of your fine work, TRANSPONDER, and concentrate on the 'accomodation' aspect of the quote.
Why is he not just declaring himself to be 'of no fixed abode'? It's very plausible!

I'm sure you are tearing up my Christmas card now, or maybe you have lost me entirely.

Address the question of accomodation!

Thanks!

[TRANSPONDER]

sorry duplicate post....for some reason.

However, I might misuse the opportunity to think about Capernaum which was as Matthew once mentions,"His own city". Obviously that means it was his base of operations (give a basic real story to which I give some credence, and the implication is that Jesus moves there from Nazareth. There would be an obvious reason why; he had recruited disciples from there, even though John implies that he already had them in Nazareth even before John baptised him. It was handy for travel by boat on the sea of Galilee or lake Genessaret

The reason he does littleor nothing in his hometown is given in the 'Rejection' where the locals of Nazareth can't believe the kid who grew up there is the prophet told in Isaiah. I have pointed out before that Luke takes this 'prophet without honor' passage, shifts it to the start of his career, Has Jesus actually declare his messiahship in the synagogue and he is almost killed as a result and God apparently has to pull a stupefaction spell to allow Jesus to walk away.

We can take that elaboration of Luke's with a box of salt, just in case we were having a roast chicken. Especially as there are doubts that Nazareth even existed at the time. Yes, I know, there is a room - complex of the time and efforts are made to equate some shelters used as tombs, a well and various artefacts as adding up to a town, but just as Tyre found buried under modern Sur means that it was rebuilt, no 1st c remains adding up to a town big enough to merit its' own synagogue (600 families, I believe) might suggest that there was no Nazareth to speak of in Jesus' time and Capernaum was indeed his own city and that was where he lay his head, when he wasn't missionizing somewhere requiring the disciples to huddle together for warmth in the open when it got chilly at night.

"Ok, then, if there was no Nazareth, why was Jesus called 'Jesus of Nazareth', hey?"

"Ah....."

[Thomas123]

I can't afford to mark people off my 'friends list' , it is almost a blank page.
Please stick with the process and tell me if Jesus had a place to stay or not, when he said,this.

"- the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Thomas123 in post #5]

You are welcome to inscribe my name on a sheet of paper, then strike it off as savagely as Beethoven struck Napoleon's name off the title page of the 3rd symphony. As to where Jesus parked himself of a night, see the post above.

[Miles]

I can't afford to mark people off my 'friends list' , it is almost a blank page.
Please stick with the process and tell me if Jesus had a place to stay or not, when he said,this.

"- the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

What I don't understand is why Jesus refers to himself in the third person.

Any clues?

.

[Thomas123]

You are teasing me into speculation, Miles.! I will leave that to someone else to enjoy, ...anyway..

We need to address this issue first.

Please stick with the process and tell me if Jesus had a place to stay or not, when he said,this.

"- the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

[Miles]

You are teasing me into speculation, Miles.! I will leave that to someone else to enjoy, ...anyway..

We need to address this issue first.

Please stick with the process and tell me if Jesus had a place to stay or not, when he said,this.

"- the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Okay, I take the phrase to mean he has no place to stay. But then there's his strange remark a couple of verses later in Matthew 8:22

 "And Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead.” In as much as such a thing is impossible what could he have meant?

.

[Thomas123]

TRANSPONDER:'However, I might misuse the opportunity to think about Capernaum which was as Matthew once mentions,"His own city". Obviously that means it was his base of operations (give a basic real story to which I give some credence, and the implication is that Jesus moves there from Nazareth'

Thomas123: Your overall knowledge is indispensable to this thread, so thanks again.

The ,getting turned out of 'Nazareth' adds to the possibility of Jesus being a homeless person.
Can I be lazy and ask you the following. You mentioned two places in an earlier quote then we have Nazareth and Capernaum, Jerusalem, Are these places close, what about the Sea of Galilee. Thanks!