Was Jesus homeless? Matthew 8:20

[Thomas123]

Matthew 8:20

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Is this quote simply about accomodation or can we reasonably apply metaphor to it?

What do you think?

Thanks!

[Thomas123]

Miles: But then there's his strange remark a couple of verses later in Matthew 8:22
Okay, I take the phrase to mean he has no place to stay

Thomas123:Please stop tempting me to speculate. We will get to 22 when we have dealt with the accomodation issue.
Why had he no place to stay?

[Thomas123]

To TRANSPONDER, ..on the 2 occasions that this quote is used in the NT how far was their context from his possible flat' in Capernaum. That might tell us something. If it was more than a couple of hours, walk or sail, he might indeed have been sleeping rough, that night.

[TRANSPONDER]

To TRANSPONDER, ..on the 2 occasions that this quote is used in the NT how far was their context from his possible flat' in Capernaum. That might tell us something. If it was more than a couple of hours, walk or sail, he might indeed have been sleeping rough, that night.

Luke at least puts it into a context - he has a place to stay in Capernaum, but he is setting out on a journey, and cannot expect to be given accommodation, especially the way he treats those who invite him to dinner (Luke 11.37). In Matthew the context (putting aside the one I mentioned which is what it's really about) is loose since Jesus is just shipping across the sea of Galilee and just involves sleeping on the beach for a couple of days, not permanent homelessness.

[Thomas123]

-but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

How feasible is it to suggest that he is saying, ...don't follow me because I haven't a clue where I'm sleeping tonight myself. Why consider anything else?

-Jesus is just shipping across the sea of Galilee and just involves sleeping on the beach for a couple of days, not permanent homelessness.

Isn't that a feasible inference from your musings, T?

[Thomas123]

My apologies to both Miles and TRANSPONDER, others,who participated in this pedantic debate experiment.There is little doubt that we could break the forum record with this approach and have Jesus sleeping in a B&B in Blackpool at the end.

This same debate phenomena is occurring simultaneously on another thread on this forum.
The net result of these shenanigans, on my part, is that my currency as a sincere debater is being devalued with every post. There is little benefit to be gleaned by roping in competent debaters to participate in baloney and hypothetical conjecture.

From here on in I will be sincere and explain my own beliefs on this matter and describe the inspiration behind the threads inception. I am tired of this pedanticism.

Thanks!

[PolytheistWitch]

Could these quotes be Christ's way of saying that birds and foxes are animals in nature. That they basically run on instinct of eating and sleeping and breeding. He then refers to those who put their hand to the plow meaning those who participate in the natural Cycles of Life of planting, growing, eating,sleeping and breeding. There are times in the Bible where Christ says that we are not of this world but in it. Almost like he's trying to tell us to separate ourselves from what naturally happens in the environment and be higher than that in some way. Basically saying if you involve yourself in the day-to-days of life, you'll never find God. If you are someone who looks at Christ Consciousness as a way of life instead of Christ as a religious figure, it takes on this Buddha-like aspect of living your higher self closer to being one with the universe. I'm assuming that in both Buddhism and Christ Consciousness that at some point it's addressed that if you live this way people/ the universe will take care of you? In other words those that aren't living their life like this or the ones who will make sure you have food and we'll make sure you're dead get buried.

[Thomas123]

PolytheistWitch:"Basically saying if you involve yourself in the day-to-days of life, you'll never find God"

Thomas123:Allow me to disagree with most of your deductions, PW. I see it differently.

I would debate that this NT Jesus is fundamentally, 'a country boy'. He has been ascribed a working class background and his friends are fishermen. This in no way precludes him from deep profundity of thought. We have Gospel anecdotes of his preciousness and scriptural accomplishments.

You deductions do not allow for the following in my opinion, PW.

This Jesus is a thinker bordering on or even surpassing previosly attained levels of human insight.( at least in Judaism) Such a person would subconsciously deliver the quote, as recalled by presumed witnesses, without blemish.

If this quote can be found to have a generic forefather in any previously available literature for Matthew then it may well be a thing 'planted for purpose' by the writer. Unless this is shown to be the case then we must set about deciphering genius.

Which is it going to be?

ps: I cannot detect Buddhism, in this but rather the emotive opposite of same.Let us debate this further, Thanks!

[PolytheistWitch]

[Replying to Thomas123 in post #17]

I would debate that this NT Jesus is fundamentally, 'a country boy'. He has been ascribed a working class background and his friends are fishermen. This in no way precludes him from deep profundity of thought. We have Gospel anecdotes of his preciousness and scriptural accomplishments.

Neither he nor they were considered to be on the path to God until they quit what they were doing and basically went around "preaching". According to the New Testament, Christ didn't just engage with fishermen he also discussed theology with Rabbis so to imply that he was a country boy with no education it's dishonest.

Buddhism and Christ Consciousness set out for a person to become enlightened in the way they live and the way they engage with others. Knowing and improving oneself and helping others. The only difference being Buddha did not believe in a deity and Christ refers to a Father/Creator.

[Thomas123]

Let's look for precedent for this quote in Judaic scripture. There are very few mentions of foxes and a few more mentions of nests to be found.

This is as close as I could get!
Can you do better?

Proverbs 27:8
" As a bird that wandereth from her nest, so is a man who wandereth from his place."

...this seems 'hardly' connected!

[Thomas123]

Psalm 91
"He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust."

If the Jesus in the narrative were speaking in the manner you allude to, PolytheistWitch, he would have spoken as the psalm does.

In actuality he decries his misfortune!

Thanks!