Other Gods are Real

[Purple Knight]

Question for Debate: Is there room in the Christian faith to believe other gods are real if not worship them?

Doesn't the First Commandment imply other gods are real since it says not to worship them? Nothing about them not existing. Just, don't worship them. I understand this is a negative implication based on what was not said and thus not airtight but it reads like it would have been worded differently if there were no other gods.

Wouldn't this solve the dilemma that people often put to Christians? The dilemma is that Christianity has an effectively 0% chance of being true since there are a lot of religions and a lot of gods and any of them might exist. That's solved if you say they all might exist.

And doesn't the Catechism warn against black magic? I can't think the God of the Bible put black magic into the physical world and empowers people who use it to do more harm to people who don't. To be a good play on his part it would have to be a serious temptation, which it can't be since most people don't think it's real. Other than being a temptation, I can't see a point to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_magic

Unless I'm wrong the common thread here is: It's real, but don't do it it's evil. So my point is a good one that the only valid reason to put black magic on Earth is as a temptation, and it doesn't function as that with so much disbelief. In fact it's likely to backfire, causing good people who are not out to do anyone any harm to actually earn punishment when they put a real spell on somebody when they were only trying to act it out as a catharsis. (Though this may simply lend credence to the idea that if you act something out, you are, in a way, doing it, and it merits punishment anyway.)

[Difflugia]

And the naming of gods other than Yahweh.

1 Kings 11:33

...because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of Moab, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon; and they have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and mine ordinances, as did David his father.

And in addition to naming the other gods, Chemosh actually acted within the Bible:

2 Kings 3:26-27

And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him seven hundred men that drew sword, to break through unto the king of Edom; but they could not. Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt-offering upon the wall. And there was great wrath against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.

When the King of Moab sacrificed his eldest son to Chemosh, Chemosh manifested His power and turned the tide of battle against Israel.

[1213]

A golden calf can be shown to be real. Whats your god concept got in comparison? What's the justification for rejecting the calf while accepting the Hebrew god as being real?

A golden calf is made by humans. If I would keep it as my god, I could as well keep anything man made as my god. I have no reason to do so, because even I can do more than the objects humans have made.

I keep Bible God as my God, because of the wisdom, knowledge and love He shows through the Bible.

[Difflugia]

A golden calf is made by humans. If I would keep it as my god, I could as well keep anything man made as my god.

Like the Bible?

I have no reason to do so, because even I can do more than the objects humans have made.

I keep Bible God as my God, because of the wisdom, knowledge and love He shows through the Bible.

How is that different than the wisdom, love, and knowledge He shows through a golden calf?

[JoeyKnothead]

A golden calf can be shown to be real. Whats your god concept got in comparison? What's the justification for rejecting the calf while accepting the Hebrew god as being real?

A golden calf is made by humans. If I would keep it as my god, I could as well keep anything man made as my god. I have no reason to do so, because even I can do more than the objects humans have made.

I keep Bible God as my God, because of the wisdom, knowledge and love He shows through the Bible.

I'd hazard a guess and say your Bible was printed by humans.

[Eloi]

As I recall reading, and recently checked myself, Hebrew, the language the Old Testament was written in, does not contain lower case or upper case letters, AND in Koine Greek, the language the New Testament was originally written in, "capital letters are used at the beginning of paragraphs, sentences (depending on publisher), proper names, and the beginning of quotations.* ("god" is not a proper name). So any capitalized "god" outside these rules would have to be a later concoction added into translations, most likely to make scripture conform to some theological agenda of the translator or his employer (the church). So, go ahead and make up whatever significance you care to, in the end it's meaningless.

*source

.

Although Hebrew or Greek may not have used capital letters in ancient times, both languages have ways of expressing determination and personal identity. For example, in Hebrew a word is used for "lord" that is only used with Jehovah, and in Greek a definite article is used before the noun "god" whenever the grammar of that language allows it, to refer to God (with capital letters). There are also adjectives and titles that determine the noun, turning it into identifiers. For example, Jehovah is called in the Scriptures "the God of gods", and obviously that title can only apply to the Highest authority of the Universe. Any god that exists, false or genuinely respected or feared, is below the God of gods.

Deut. 10:17 For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty, and awe-inspiring, who treats none with partiality and does not accept a bribe.

[JoeyKnothead]

A golden calf is made by humans. If I would keep it as my god, I could as well keep anything man made as my god.

Like the Bible?

I have no reason to do so, because even I can do more than the objects humans have made.

I keep Bible God as my God, because of the wisdom, knowledge and love He shows through the Bible.

How is that different than the wisdom, love, and knowledge He shows through a golden calf?

I kinda stepped on your post, but that last bit takes it well beyond what I had considered.

I've built four churches / add-ons to em in my life, and I'm here to tell it, you might not find you no golden calf, but the other idols abound. Heck, down in Gainesville, Ga, I hear tell of a church with an elevator that drops the preacher's car off on his assigned floor. Then the jets, and the clothes, and all such as that. One doesn't have to pray to an idol for it to be one.

[Purple Knight]

A golden calf is made by humans. If I would keep it as my god, I could as well keep anything man made as my god.

Like the Bible? How is that different than the wisdom, love, and knowledge He shows through a golden calf?

You would have to believe that something inside the Bible points to something greater and nothing about a golden calf does.

It isn't a stretch to believe in a greater morality from a thing that is not that thing. All fiction is not considered equal, for example, and it's generally accepted that some stories teach good lessons and some do not. Since the Bible has stories in it and rules to live by, and a golden calf is just an idol, there's at least a basis here to choose one and not the other.

Though the penguin is right about something not needing to be called an idol to be one.

[Difflugia]

Since the Bible has stories in it and rules to live by, and a golden calf is just an idol, there's at least a basis here to choose one and not the other.

That basis is nothing more than perspective, but it's been presented as self-evident. To flip your statement, dancing around golden calves provides a conduit to the Holy Spirit in ways that can't be accomplished by a mere printed page.

[brunumb]

For example some people made a golden calf and kept it as their god. I have no doubt such thing can exist. It just should not be kept as ones God.

But is the golden calf regarded as the god or merely a point of focus for worshiping the actual god? Millions of people bob up and down crossing themselves before statues of Jesus, Mary, crucifixes and so on. Do they regard those objects as their god?

[1213]

...
How is that different than the wisdom, love, and knowledge He shows through a golden calf?

What is the wisdom, or words of the calf?