Experiencing God - (An Instructional How-to)

[POI]

I have been given (yet another) way to apparently experience God. (i.e. viewtopic.php?t=39327&start=360):

"I am asking if you are willing to do it now. Rosary for 9 days in a row. You are being offered the chance to experience God."

********************************

In another thread (viewtopic.php?t=40313), I ultimately explained how I was a devout believer for decades. And yet, I never felt I experienced any contact from God. For years/decades, I tried all sorts of methods. I asked others, and sure enough, many would give me their anecdotal accounts. Above, is just another example of a way in which people have given me, over the years, to possibly experience god. But fear not, as the instructions are usually fail-safe. Meaning, if it still does not work, and one is not deemed a liar for not really trying, then the answer MUST INSTEAD BE that it is not yet God's will for that one to experience god. This, of course, begs other questions...

For Debate:

1) I have been given a 9-day-challenge. I will probably pass on trying it myself. Why? I have already been given all sorts of methods, which apparently also worked for the individuals giving the instructions, but not for me.

What is MOST likely (A, B, C, D)?

A) God communicates with some and not others?
B) God communicates with no one, because there is no such god, and some are merely experiencing self deception?
C) God communicates with everyone, but some people don't notice?
D) God exists, but either never has, and/or no longer, communicates with anyone?

I'm going with B).

2) Is anyone down to take this 9-day-challenge and tell me how it goes?

[The Tanager]

Per request, I have added option C), and an option D)

Thanks!

What's my reason? Well, to simplify, because I no longer believe the Bible God exists -- (per what I already explained in my other thread, and also linked to it here in the OP (i.e.) "Where's God?".

But why not a non-Bible God? As to why not the Bible God, you are definitely free not to rehash that, but I’m not sure I have the time to piece it together from that thread. I’d love to hear a summary of the reasons why but, again, you don’t owe me to rehash what you wrote in that other thread.

Now, what say you? A), B), C), or D)? And more importantly, why?

I believe (C) is the most reasonable position to take. Why? I think (B) is knocked out because I think the theistic worldview accounts for more aspects of reality than an atheistic worldview. I think it better accounts for the intelligibility of reality, mathematical applicability, objective morality, the beginning of space-time, the fine-tuning of our universe, among other reasons.

I think (C) separates itself from the remaining choices due to some of the things I’ve mentioned above, as well as the authority I place upon the Bible, which I think is shown the most reasonable position to take due to the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus, as well as the reliability of the New Testament documents to have recorded what Jesus taught.

Also, care to take the 9-day-challenge, as presented by another theist? Or, do you already freely communicate with God, by other means? And if so, please share your process?

I do believe I freely communicate with God. I would call that prayer, but I think prayer is a bigger reality than specific methods and includes things like Bible study, worshiping with others, etc. But I don’t think it's to follow such-and-such steps and you’ll automatically communicate; I think it’s also about how we approach the various avenues open to us and the ways God has communicated with us already.

[The Tanager]

It just means he might only bless some people with a direct line to him and not others. It's not out of the question. He's not the God of Equality; he's the God of one Chosen People.

So, you agree that God can communicate with all, yet act differently towards them? But you also feel that, assuming the Bible as authoritative, God is shown to communicate with some but not others? I apologize if I misunderstood you.

I still think the examples you use aren’t showing a lack of communication with others, but (possibly) a different kind of communication. For instance, with the Amalekites, we aren’t told God didn’t communicate with them and try to get them to change their ways. So, that point seems to be an argument from silence. I think the wider Biblical context (and even something like the moral argument) would cause us to most reasonably lean towards God having communicated the wickedness of the Amorites to them, calling them to repent, and giving them hundreds of years to do so.

I also think calling God the God of one Chosen People is inconsistent with the Biblical record, at least in how I think you mean that. The whole point of choosing one people (for a Christian understanding), in the Bible, is a preparation for God’s incarnation, which would have to come through one people group. This traces all the way back to the Adam and Eve story (representing all of humanity), in Genesis 3:15, promising a snake-crusher to Eve. And throughout the Old Testament, God continually reminds the point of the Jews being the chosen people is so that they will be a blessing to all nations and lead them towards God to be included in God’s kingdom.

[JoeyKnothead]

..
What is MOST likely (A, B, C, D)?
A) God communicates with some and not others?
B) God communicates with no one, because there is no such god, and some are merely experiencing self deception?
C) God communicates with everyone, but some people don't notice?
D) God exists, but either never has, and/or no longer, communicates with anyone?

I'm reticent to call it self deception, but put me down for B. D ain't out of the question, but has little confirmatory data in support.

Our best data suggests that instances of gods speaking to folks, when it ain't outright mental illness, is best explained as the mind having its own bit of conversation.

We see often these 'messages' range from self serving - how many preachers is it now, who God wants to have em a private jet - to otherwise normal pleas for folks to think or act in a way the claimant thinks they oughta.

All the while, with the power to make entire universes, the god in question can't speak loud enough, or clear enough, so's we all hear his message at once, and can't nobody deny what it is he said.

[Purple Knight]

It just means he might only bless some people with a direct line to him and not others. It's not out of the question. He's not the God of Equality; he's the God of one Chosen People.

So, you agree that God can communicate with all, yet act differently towards them? But you also feel that, assuming the Bible as authoritative, God is shown to communicate with some but not others? I apologize if I misunderstood you.

That's what I meant yes.

I still think the examples you use aren’t showing a lack of communication with others, but (possibly) a different kind of communication. For instance, with the Amalekites, we aren’t told God didn’t communicate with them and try to get them to change their ways. So, that point seems to be an argument from silence. I think the wider Biblical context (and even something like the moral argument) would cause us to most reasonably lean towards God having communicated the wickedness of the Amorites to them, calling them to repent, and giving them hundreds of years to do so.

If we're going to assume the Bible is true and applies to our reality, we can show this isn't the case by finding just one wicked person who genuinely does not know that what they are doing is wrong. You would have to say that in the case of conflict, there is never genuine moral disagreement and one side secretly knows it is wrong, every time. A good example is woke vs. racist. I don't think people on the racist side know they are wrong. I think they genuinely believe that privilege is meaningless, free speech should be protected, and individuals are only responsible for making up for things they actually did.

I used to believe in these things and I never got evidence that they were false. I ceased believing in them because I calculated that if I was wrong to support the racist side, I would be doing a greater evil than if I am wrong to support the woke side.

I seek answers constantly. I am here seeking them. I care about right and wrong more than anything, except maybe my loved ones, and I'm ashamed of that caveat. God absolutely does not talk to me unless you're going to say he does it through cryptic signs in the toaster marks of my breakfast pastry.

I also think calling God the God of one Chosen People is inconsistent with the Biblical record, at least in how I think you mean that. The whole point of choosing one people (for a Christian understanding), in the Bible, is a preparation for God’s incarnation, which would have to come through one people group. This traces all the way back to the Adam and Eve story (representing all of humanity), in Genesis 3:15, promising a snake-crusher to Eve. And throughout the Old Testament, God continually reminds the point of the Jews being the chosen people is so that they will be a blessing to all nations and lead them towards God to be included in God’s kingdom.

Instead of protecting the Israelites and allowing them to take other peoples' land (like Jericho) he could have just incarnated Jesus from any mother.

[Eloi]

In Israel's time there was only one nation under Jehovah's protection: Israel (under the covenant of Moses). The rest of the world decided to serve other gods. However, anyone who had contact with the Israelites gained knowledge of the Supreme God and the opportunity to serve him and have his protection. For example, an Israelite slave girl living in Syria told her mistress about the possibility that her master would be cured of his leprosy by a prophet in Israel. The story is very interesting (2 Kings 5) and we can see how Jehovah has always been accessible to everyone, although only his people were under his direct care.

However, when the right time came, God opened the doors to people all over the world, and to this day those doors are still open, although not for much longer. Anyone who wishes to be under the care of Jehovah, the Majesty of the Universe, can access Him by following the instructions of his modern people, Christians Jehovah's Witnesses. No one can complain and say that they have not had the opportunity today to know the Supreme and serve him to enjoy his pleasantness and enjoy what he offers for the near future.

Rev. 7:9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
... 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

[Difflugia]

and have his protection.

Except from iron chariots (Judges 1:19) and lions (2 Kings 17:25).

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

If you are actually serious about experiencing God, you will try it. Many that have tried it have a powerful experience or more than one, such as myself. I honestly did not expect anything from the rosary when I first tried it.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Do you need God to "communicate" with you to have faith in him?

As I stated, many times now.... I asked for God's contact, for decades, and nothing. Imagine if someone or something provided the promise of "communication", and after about 10K times of trying to do so, for decades, and in every which way imaginable, you never got it... Would you remain as "faithful"? If so, why?

[POI]

...
A) God communicates with some and not others?
B) God communicates with no one, because there is no such god, and some are merely experiencing self deception?
C) God communicates with everyone, but some people don't notice?
D) God exists, but either never has, and/or no longer, communicates with anyone?
...

But isn't the Bible contact from God, because it has His message in it? If you don't like that message, why expect something else from a new contact from God?

It's not about whether or not I like the message(s). It's the fact that I never felt any contact myself, even after decades of asking and trying. Thus, I now have my suspicions, as to whether or not anyone is really actually experiencing contact from any external agency at all?.?.?.?.?

Hence, maybe it's actually answer A), B), C), or D)? Is He skipping me, which would mean answer A)? Is He not real, and many are experiencing self deception B)? Am I too stupid to notice, which means God is not really trying to make me aware C)? God either no longer contacts anyone, or never has D)?

Answer B) seems to require the least amount of additional (ad hoc / post hoc) explanation(s).

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

If you are actually serious about experiencing God, you will try it. Many that have tried it have a powerful experience or more than one, such as myself. I honestly did not expect anything from the rosary when I first tried it.

This "actually serious" angle implies those who reject religious belief were insincere when they did try.

It's no better'n me saying you ain't serious when you try to tell folks how to experience God.