Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

[2timothy316]

Trinitarians are not one group.

Is this true? Are there different groups of trinitarians that all have different trinity doctrines?

[Eloi]

These questions are for all the forumers who call themselves trinitarians.

(...) Which one of all those variants of trinities describe your trinity?

1) Jehovah is Jesus or not
2) Are the Father and Son co-equal in knowledge and power
3) there is subordination in their relationship or both have the same authority
4) Was Jesus God even when human or not
5) Was prehuman Jesus an independent person or just an impersonal part of God
6) Was Jesus the angel of Jehovah in OT or not
7) is the Son as person an eternal-in-past being, or was he begotten any time in the past

Thanks in advance.

IMO, since the called ortodox doctrine of the trinity do not answer these specific questions (since this is a mystery to them), people around the world who trust that there is something true on the original teaching, are trying to answer themselves these questions to defend what they think is a truth. Since there is not any official answer, each person can try and use what they think is the spirit of God in them (the way each of them think they have it) to give them some enlightenment about this.

Will the Trinitarians find a solution to their problem, or will they have to be arguing among themselves about it all the days that this world has left until God's judgment comes upon it?

[Eloi]

Think about this: if you count all the combinations you can make regarding the trinity with the 7 points I mentioned in my last post, there would be a total of 2^7 = 128 diferent trinities and these are only 7 diferent points where the values only gets 1 or 0, which means YES or NOT as only possible answers to the questions. Imagine if you add more points or if any new question can be answer with more than two values!!!!!

However, surprisingly, for some Trinitarians a true Christian has to be involved in this ocean of confusion, or simply cannot be called a Christian.

When this matter is analyzed objectively, what realistic conclusions can we reach? Is a doctrine like this really linked to biblical truth? Does this confusion come from God?

[bjs1]

How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described?

The doctrine of the Trinity has been described in this thread. Virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is in a Christian context. Not everyone agrees with the Trinity. Even among people who do not believe in the Trinity there is a nearly universal agreement on what the doctrine of the Trinity is.

So I wonder how people feel to hear their 'trinity' that is not like 'the trinity' but is really just a plain 'white house'?

It is hard to say since virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is. People might believe something else, but they can still recognize that this “something else” is not what people are talking about when they mention the Trinity.

Describe 'the trinity' as you see it or if you prefer direct us to a reference.

The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[Eloi]

How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described?

The doctrine of the Trinity has been described in this thread. Virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is in a Christian context. Not everyone agrees with the Trinity. Even among people who do not believe in the Trinity there is a nearly universal agreement on what the doctrine of the Trinity is.

So I wonder how people feel to hear their 'trinity' that is not like 'the trinity' but is really just a plain 'white house'?

It is hard to say since virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is. People might believe something else, but they can still recognize that this “something else” is not what people are talking about when they mention the Trinity.

Describe 'the trinity' as you see it or if you prefer direct us to a reference.

The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

It has been shown that this is not the case, so do not insist.

[2timothy316]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

I would advise against lame arguments like this. It reflects poorly on you.

LOL This is funny. You talk as people don't already look down on a lame non-trinitarian such as myself.

Not everyone reading your posts is a Christian, and not every Christian looks down on you. The fact that some people might already do so is a poor excuse for you to be making lame arguments.

Good thing trying to please everyone is not the center of my existence eh?

Some Christians have historically put forward different ideas as to the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Calling all of such views "trinitarian" is confusing, since many of the proponents of those ideas don't describe their view using that term.

Well, that is the point of this thread. To collect all those called trintiy doctrines. When I find a new one I'll dump it here.

As you like. But what I've noticed so far from several people in this thread, including yourself, is the tendency to describe any view of God you personally disagree with as "trinitatian," even when the people holding that view don't themselves call it "trinitarian."

So are we going to actually talk about the trinity or keep hitting this straw-man?

[2timothy316]

How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described?

The doctrine of the Trinity has been described in this thread. Virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is in a Christian context. Not everyone agrees with the Trinity. Even among people who do not believe in the Trinity there is a nearly universal agreement on what the doctrine of the Trinity is.

Nearly but not completely.

Describe 'the trinity' as you see it or if you prefer direct us to a reference.

The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Ok, thanks for the answer.
Are the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit all equal to one another?

[Eloi]

The definition/concept or whatever we can call the simplistic official description of the trinity involves a misterious substance that is shared among three persons, and they call that substance Godhead or something similar. So even if they say there are three persons, they call God to that substance, not to any of those three persons ... and that thing they supposedly share is what makes them "god" to each of them.

That is not an explication, it is not a definition, it is just a very ambiguous way of describing something that do not even exist, that is not a person, that is not described in the Bible ... It is like saying that God is something nobody knows. The divine nature is something real and the Scriptures talk about it, but having it does not make anyone equal to God (2 Pet. 1:4).

Rational people can not settle with something that simplistic that is not even saying anything about any of the three individual persons they say are sharing this thing they call Godhead ... or about the real relationship among those supposed three persons who share It.

[bjs1]

How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described?

The doctrine of the Trinity has been described in this thread. Virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is in a Christian context. Not everyone agrees with the Trinity. Even among people who do not believe in the Trinity there is a nearly universal agreement on what the doctrine of the Trinity is.

So I wonder how people feel to hear their 'trinity' that is not like 'the trinity' but is really just a plain 'white house'?

It is hard to say since virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is. People might believe something else, but they can still recognize that this “something else” is not what people are talking about when they mention the Trinity.

Describe 'the trinity' as you see it or if you prefer direct us to a reference.

The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

It has been shown that this is not the case, so do not insist.

Where has this been shown?

[bjs1]

How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described?

The doctrine of the Trinity has been described in this thread. Virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is in a Christian context. Not everyone agrees with the Trinity. Even among people who do not believe in the Trinity there is a nearly universal agreement on what the doctrine of the Trinity is.

Nearly but not completely.

Hence I said “virtually everyone agrees..” There will always be the 1% - 2% of people who disagree with anything. I mean, look at the flat earth movement...

Are the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit all equal to one another?

Yes.

[Eloi]

Where has this been shown?

Read the past comments.