Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #1

Post by Eloi »

When Jehovah formed the nation of Israel, he organized it. He gave them laws, judges, prophets, priests, etc. He took them to a territory and eventually made them a nation with a land of their own. He protected them as long as they were faithful, but in the end he rejected them as His chosen people.

Later, when the followers of Christ became an international community, he organized them. The apostles and elders in Jerusalem constituted its Governing Body. Congregations were formed in different places where it was preached, and the holy spirit appointed overseers among them, who always followed the general instructions of the Governing Body as we can see in Acts 15 ... until the apostasy plunged Christians into darkness.

The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #31

Post by Eloi »

Miles wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:25 pm
Eloi wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:53 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:56 am
Eloi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 am The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?
Gotta say, I checked around a bit, but never found a Bible that said "a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah" in Isaiah 2:2-4. Are you sure you got the right chapter and verse?

.
When Isaiah inspiredly predicted that the mountain of Jehovah would be exalted in the end time, he was saying that the united people of God during the last days would be visible to all the world and easily identifiable.

Is. 2:2 In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.  3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.  4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.
So you didn't find any mention of "a new people" either. I didn't figure you would.

.
I don't need to prove anything to you.
Have a good one.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #32

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:30 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:25 pm
Eloi wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:53 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:56 am
Eloi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 am The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?
Gotta say, I checked around a bit, but never found a Bible that said "a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah" in Isaiah 2:2-4. Are you sure you got the right chapter and verse?

.
When Isaiah inspiredly predicted that the mountain of Jehovah would be exalted in the end time, he was saying that the united people of God during the last days would be visible to all the world and easily identifiable.

Is. 2:2 In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.  3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.  4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.
So you didn't find any mention of "a new people" either. I didn't figure you would.

.
I don't need to prove anything to you.
Have a good one.
And I never said you did. You simply made a claim you were unable to back up. No biggie. It happens all the time around here.

.

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #33

Post by Eloi »

Is. 2:2 In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

In what sense is the people of God today a "new people"?

Firstly, because it has appeared recently, and that is why Isaiah says: "in the final part of the days".

Second: it is a people made up of individuals from hundreds of countries and who speak many languages, and that is why Isaiah says "to it all the nations will stream".

Third: since this people is made up of persons living in many different countries, it is impossible for them to take part in world wars where humans kill each other, so Isaiah explains that they "will not learn war anymore".

Fourth: Although these are people who live in hundreds of nations, they are instructed by a central group, and that is why Isaiah says people around the world will say "let's go up ... He will instruct us about his ways".

According to the book of Revelation, these people praise Jehovah and honor Jesus for making their salvation possible, meaning that this end-time people is made up of Jehovah-worshipping Christians united in a single international organization.

Rev. 7:9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” (...) 13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

Is there any doubt that the modern people of Jehovah is a new of its kind people? :?:

User avatar
Purple Knight
Prodigy
Posts: 3465
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 1129 times
Been thanked: 729 times

Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #34

Post by Purple Knight »

Eloi wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:16 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:02 pm(...)
I see that you have had a very bad experience with whom you have considered your "leaders"... What makes you think that mine are like yours?
I don't think they are. Actually I think Elders are an exception, more rather than less.

What I think remains true is that honey attracts flies. And when you're willing to put your faith and trust in another person, give them your heart, and respect their judgment over your own, that is the sweetest honey. It attracts the most vicious and filthy fly.

So what your communities must be doing, is spending disproportionate energy on fly screens. Having a good and decent deck of Elders while other religions fall into pederasty must make you see that what you have is an unstable equilibrium. Once the flies get in, they will easily control the fly screens that are put up, so that they can always squeeze through. Once maggots enter your cake, it is lost to you forever, and no possible amount of labour with tweezers will restore it, because they already pooped in it, making it suitable for them alone. When and if that happens, you just have to be ready to stop pouring honey into that cake, thinking to save it.
Eloi wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:16 pmJesus is aware of how those he has designated act on his people:

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 44 I tell you truthfully, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

As he himself has designated them, I fully trust his decision. In fact, the years have shown my leaders to be reasonable and loving, displaying a spirit of wisdom that can only be possible under the approval of God and his Son and under the influence of the holy spirit in them.

If that were not the case, they would have to answer directly to Jesus.

Luke 12:45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

I feel blessed to belong to God's people, because he has drawn me to his people. :dance:
Our lives are short and we live in the days of the absentee master and the drunk slave, appointed above us.

It would be the absolute worst thing if these lives were all we had and we lived under the drunk slave's yoke, hoping we'd be saved and he'd get his in the end, and in the end we're just all equally dead.

I also don't think in the case that any of this afterlife stuff is real, and we do our best to deal with this maggot, not out of hate but out of love - to gain the best lives for everyone else if they are freed from him - I don't think a fair and good god would punish us for it.

So win-win for doing the right thing for the lives we have, I think.

Post Reply