boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:52 am
If it's so compelling, why won't the Church say it?
And if the church says it's authentic, then you'd immediately believe in it? I doubt it. So, why does it matter what the church says?
Where are the Nobel Prizes?
What are you talking about? If there is a lack of a Nobel prize in something is not evidence something is not true.
I also don't debate with Flat Earthers, or Moon Landing Deniers.
I don't either.
So, if I have evidence that a person produces a dollar bill, and ALL other dollar bills are counterfeit, I have every reason to believe his dollar is fake too.
It's not evidence the dollar bill in my wallet is fake.
If you believe the TS is a fake, please present your evidence instead of just making unsupported assertions. Is this so hard for skeptics to provide evidence with references?
That's your burden. You have to show there is a thing called "Supernatural", You have to make your case that the TS is real - and you have not done this.
I've been providing numerous pages of evidence with references. If you reject them, it's not on logical grounds since nobody yet has rationally countered them with evidence
. Please provide one example in the discussions so far where this has been done.
If you had, you'd be famous. Are you famous? No.
Ad hom fallacy.
Religious people, more than any time in history, have to obey the rules of logic and make a positive case for their beliefs, since NONE of their supernatural claims have been proven. Not one. Why do religious people still think they get a pass?
Another ad hom fallacy.
Also, there is a a reason I spent considerable time in cosmology in this thread. Cosmology has already breached into non-natural explanations. Please review that starting in post 1107
I want to add to this. We are well past the idea that these topics 'deserve ample discussion' - they have been discussed for centuries. Yet, not one of these supernatural claims have been proven.
I'm not out to prove anything. As I stated on the outset:
otseng wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:41 am
Like all arguments I've made in this thread, I'm not out to prove Jesus was resurrected, but I will attempt to show there are evidence to support it and that it is a reasonable position to hold.
They have either been shown to be fakes, frauds, false, mistakes, etc,, or, they are gaps in our knowledge. Not ONE has been proven to be "This is Supernatural".
Why do you keep bringing up other relics? I'm not claiming any of those are authentic. It could be true that all other relics are fake, but it still does not show the TS is a fake.
Not ONE has been shown to support religion. Islam, Mormons, Christians all claim the same kinds of things, and use the same kind of arguments.
Nothing is funnier than watching Mormons argue with Christians about the validity of historical documents, etc. It's like watching toddlers talk about physics.
If it's so childish to believe the TS is authentic, it should be easy to refute it on rational grounds instead of continually making ad hom statements.
I really must insist that the people with the burden is firmly on the supernatural, religious claim - and, again, they have all failed. I am sure you would also avoid arguing with someone on the possible existence of Yeti's, Pixies, Santa, etc. Or a flat earth, or lizard people, or... on and on.... You probably even scoff at some of these. You probably wont debate many Muslims or Hindus about their claims because you don't feel they even have a seat at the table.
Of course the burden is mine to show the TS is authentic. However, the burden is not mine to show any other relic is authentic.
That is where the TS is. It hasn't earned a seat at the table.
This shows your lack of knowledge of the TS. I have to ask, have you even read through all what I've been posting on the TS? Have you read through the accompanying references?
All these claims religious people have: They do some Googling, then post them on religious forums.
It's like the guys who don't like Evolution. They steer far away from any actual science forum. They know their claims are bunk. I believe you know your claims are bunk. If not, go to a science forum, make your case, and post the discussion here.
How would you know "I know my claim is bunk"?
I've stated this before and I'll state it again, I'm willing to challenge anyone to a paper submission to any refereed shroud journal. I'll write a paper on the TS with my arguments it is authentic into a paper. You all can be co-authors on your best arguments against the TS. And we can submit our papers for review and let's see what happens. Any takers? If nobody takes me up on this, it reveals the skeptics have no rational arguments but can only rely on fallacious arguments.