Was Satan Unknown To God

[SacredBishop]

Job 1:7 " Jehovah asked Satan, where did you come from? Satan answered Jehovah, from wandering around." God didn't know who Satan was or where he came from. Satan gave a clue, " from wandering around". Question: Did Satan come from a realm unknown to God? Did Satan wander from an unknown realm into God's realm?

[theophile]

I think the question was only for that Satan would tell what he was doing. I don't think it means God didn't know.

Exactly. From Genesis we know God had previously interacted with Satan.


JW

It seems to me that God interacts with a serpent in Genesis, not Satan. And that all land creatures, per Genesis 1, are good (which presumably includes the serpent...).

So Satan may have a genealogical link to the serpent, much as we are genealogically linked to apes (hence we hear Satan referred to as "that ancient serpent"), but as to an identity between them? That feels like a jump too far.

[JehovahsWitness]

Satan may have a genealogical link to the serpent, much as we are genealogically linked to apes (hence we hear Satan referred to as "that ancient serpent"), but as to an identity between them? That feels like a jump too far.

I have no idea what any of that means but thanks for sharing.






Biblically it was indeed the intelligent spirit creature (the rebellious angel) that came to be identified as Satan that God conversed with in Eden.






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[theophile]

Satan may have a genealogical link to the serpent, much as we are genealogically linked to apes (hence we hear Satan referred to as "that ancient serpent"), but as to an identity between them? That feels like a jump too far.

I have no idea what any of that means but thanks for sharing.

You don't know what genealogy is? It's an important concept in the bible. What I'm saying is the serpent is an ancestor of Satan, not Satan.

Evil has a corrupting effect on life, right? Hence how future generations can be tainted by their predecessor's sin? Best to think of Satan, methinks, as the corrupted offspring of the serpent, which was originally a good creature (note Genesis 1 which provides the context for this story, where all land creatures were deemed good...)

Biblically it was indeed the intelligent spirit creature (the rebellious angel) that came to be identified as Satan that God conversed with in Eden.

There's not much room in Genesis 1-2 for this imposed narrative. It's more John Milton / Paradise Lost than it is Genesis.

[JehovahsWitness]

Biblically it was indeed the intelligent spirit creature (the rebellious angel) that came to be identified as Satan that God conversed with in Eden.

There's not much room in Genesis 1-2 for this imposed narrative. It's more John Milton / Paradise Lost than it is Genesis.

Possibly, but as of Jehovah’s Witnesses I take a wholistic approach to scripture, meaning we take 66 books into account before drawing a conclusion

[theophile]

Biblically it was indeed the intelligent spirit creature (the rebellious angel) that came to be identified as Satan that God conversed with in Eden.

There's not much room in Genesis 1-2 for this imposed narrative. It's more John Milton / Paradise Lost than it is Genesis.

Possibly, but as of Jehovah’s Witnesses I take a wholistic approach to scripture, meaning we take 66 books into account before drawing a conclusion

Sure. I'm all for that. I think you have one verse in particular that suits you -- Revelation and the war in heaven where Satan is cast down and referred to as "that ancient serpent". But is that a pre-creational event? I think it is more eschatological, and to do with the end times than it is the beginning. Hence why it is in Revelation (the end of the bible) versus Genesis...

Genesis is about the beginning when everything was good... Before the fall of man and the need for a battle in heaven or even the existence of a being like Satan...

I've always loved the ambiguity though. Cause even Genesis 3 where the serpent is introduced sets up this schism between us, where the serpent is described as the "most cunning" of wild creatures. The word "cunning" is an interpretive choice, and it gives a deceitful feel to the serpent (likening it to Satan). But the Hebrew word has a much broader range than this, and more commonly denotes prudence, sense, and even wisdom... Hence we can equally read that the serpent was the wisest of wild creatures...

The authors of Genesis had a foreshadowing of Satan, methinks, at the very least. But there is no hint of a battle in those primordial scenes...

[JehovahsWitness]

So let me getthis straight : you hold that Satan us not an unseen rebellious angel but a physical creature that evolved from a literal snake. That isn't human but can talk intelligently?

Please clarify


JW

[theophile]

So let me getthis straight : you hold that Satan us not an unseen rebellious angel but a physical creature that evolved from a literal snake. That isn't human but can talk intelligently?

Please clarify


JW

Not a literal snake, but sure. Satan arose from a living thing, which in Genesis 3 takes the form of a serpent. Satan is a spirit (/angel) that was born from the enmity that formed between man and the serpent and other living things. Satan represents corrupted life and the spirit behind it... A spirit that needs to be destroyed on both heaven and earth if there is to be anything like Genesis 1 or what we see the glimmers of again at the end of Revelation...

(Satan is not a creation of God either in my view for that matter, as I believe Satan would be in yours...)

[JehovahsWitness]

So let me getthis straight : you hold that Satan us not an unseen rebellious angel but a physical creature that evolved from a literal snake. That isn't human but can talk intelligently?

Please clarify


JW

Not a literal snake, but sure. Satan arose from a living thing, which in Genesis 3 takes the form of a serpent. Satan is a spirit (/angel) that was born from the enmity that formed between man and the serpent and other living things. Satan represents corrupted life and the spirit behind it... A spirit that needs to be destroyed on both heaven and earth if there is to be anything like Genesis 1 or what we see the glimmers of again at the end of Revelation...

(Satan is not a creation of God either in my view for that matter, as I believe Satan would be in yours...)

Okay ...well I'm a bit tired do maybe that's why I am finding it hard to follow but bottom line you said " Satan is a spirit (/angel) ". However he came about we seem to be in agreement *what* he is. Right?

[theophile]

So let me getthis straight : you hold that Satan us not an unseen rebellious angel but a physical creature that evolved from a literal snake. That isn't human but can talk intelligently?

Please clarify


JW

Not a literal snake, but sure. Satan arose from a living thing, which in Genesis 3 takes the form of a serpent. Satan is a spirit (/angel) that was born from the enmity that formed between man and the serpent and other living things. Satan represents corrupted life and the spirit behind it... A spirit that needs to be destroyed on both heaven and earth if there is to be anything like Genesis 1 or what we see the glimmers of again at the end of Revelation...

(Satan is not a creation of God either in my view for that matter, as I believe Satan would be in yours...)

Okay ...well I'm a bit tired do maybe that's why I am finding it hard to follow but bottom line you said " Satan is a spirit (/angel) ". However he came about we seem to be in agreement *what* he is. Right?

I tried to be concise, but that means there's a bit to unpack in what I said before. But I don't think it's unreasonable what I'm saying...

And yes, we agree that Satan, at least in original form, is a spirit / angel. But I think Satan can take on physical form too - becoming more than just spiritual / angelic but embodied in a living, flesh and blood thing in this world. (There is an interesting genealogy in the bible around Satan, from good serpent in Genesis 3, to the satan in Job and other OT texts, and then full manifestation as Satan in the NT... When this evil spirit becomes personified, no different than God is with Christ...)

You would agree God too is spirit (/more angelic) in form as well, right? Versus flesh and blood like you and I and other living things?

[JehovahsWitness]

And yes, we agree that Satan, at least in original form, is a spirit / angel. But I think Satan can take on physical form too ..

Yes, from a biblical viewpoint, Satan is indeed a spirit as in a rebellious angel (demon) that can (at least could by all accounts) take on physical form.

The bible contains several accounts of angels /spirits "materializing" for want of a better word, to interact with humans. The resurrected Jesus being the foremost example.

Yes God is also a spirit.