Is God evil?

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil? Surely, a good God would have made all living things to be autotrophs instead of making some autotrophs, some herbivores, some carnivores, some omnivores, and some parasites? Here are some examples of evil events which caused or are causing suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #267]

I am utterly indifferent to whether I have your attention or not.

You are the first fellow agnostic who has ever said that to me.

I am utterly indifferent to whether or not I have anyone's attention. You are not the only one.

Forgive my confusion. I thought you were coming from the position of being Agnostic...I will leave you to your self now...

I am an agnostic. There is nothing to forgive. Please see https://www.dictionary.com/browse/agnostic By agnostic I mean "a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience."

There are only five things I am 100% certain about:
1. I am a sentient being.
2. I can't do an infinite number of things even though I want to do them desperately e.g. make all living things forever happy, go back in time and prevent all suffering, injustice and deaths, make all living things all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful, etc.
3. I am constantly doing things I don't want to do e.g. sleeping, dreaming, aging, breathing, etc.
4. Mathematical truths.
5. Logical truths.

There is one thing I am 50% certain about:
1. The reality I perceive through my senses (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin) is actually real as opposed to being a simulation or a hallucination or an illusion or a dream. This includes having a body, the existence of the universe, the existence of other organisms, etc.

I am 25% certain that God is imaginary and evil.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #267]

I am utterly indifferent to whether I have your attention or not.

You are the first fellow agnostic who has ever said that to me.

I am utterly indifferent to whether or not I have anyone's attention. You are not the only one.

Forgive my confusion. I thought you were coming from the position of being Agnostic...I will leave you to your self now...

I am an agnostic. There is nothing to forgive. Please see https://www.dictionary.com/browse/agnostic By agnostic I mean "a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience."

There are only five things I am 100% certain about:
1. I am a sentient being.
2. I can't do an infinite number of things even though I want to do them desperately e.g. make all living things forever happy, go back in time and prevent all suffering, injustice and deaths, make all living things all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful, etc.
3. I am constantly doing things I don't want to do e.g. sleeping, dreaming, aging, breathing, etc.
4. Mathematical truths.
5. Logical truths.

There is one thing I am 50% certain about:
1. The reality I perceive through my senses (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin) is actually real as opposed to being a simulation or a hallucination or an illusion or a dream. This includes having a body, the existence of the universe, the existence of other organisms, etc.

I am 25% certain that God is imaginary and evil.

Does this mean you are 75% certain that GOD is NOT imaginary and evil?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #267]

I am utterly indifferent to whether I have your attention or not.

You are the first fellow agnostic who has ever said that to me.

I am utterly indifferent to whether or not I have anyone's attention. You are not the only one.

Forgive my confusion. I thought you were coming from the position of being Agnostic...I will leave you to your self now...

I am an agnostic. There is nothing to forgive. Please see https://www.dictionary.com/browse/agnostic By agnostic I mean "a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience."

There are only five things I am 100% certain about:
1. I am a sentient being.
2. I can't do an infinite number of things even though I want to do them desperately e.g. make all living things forever happy, go back in time and prevent all suffering, injustice and deaths, make all living things all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful, etc.
3. I am constantly doing things I don't want to do e.g. sleeping, dreaming, aging, breathing, etc.
4. Mathematical truths.
5. Logical truths.

There is one thing I am 50% certain about:
1. The reality I perceive through my senses (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin) is actually real as opposed to being a simulation or a hallucination or an illusion or a dream. This includes having a body, the existence of the universe, the existence of other organisms, etc.

I am 25% certain that God is imaginary and evil.

Does this mean you are 75% certain that GOD is NOT imaginary and evil?

There are four possibilities:
1. God(s) is/are real and good.
2. God(s) is/are real and evil.
3. God(s) is/are imaginary and good.
4. Gods(s) is/are imaginary and evil.

Each of the four options has a 25% chance of being correct if one was choosing one out of the four options randomly. This is why I said that I was 25% certain that God is imaginary and evil.

If God was real and good why didn't he prevent all suffering, injustices, and deaths? Why is the Bible full of inaccuracies and contradictions and atrocities if God is real and good and authored the Bible? Did you look at https://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com ? If God is real and good why are 99.9% of all the species to exist on Earth so far already extinct? If God is real and good why are there design flaws https://nautil.us/top-10-design-flaws-i ... ody-235403 in human bodies? It's possible that God is / Gods are real and evil and that's why things are the way they are. It's also possible that God is / Gods are imaginary and evil. What are your thoughts about the four options?

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #273]

1. God(s) is/are real and good.
2. God(s) is/are real and evil.
3. God(s) is/are imaginary and good.
4. Gods(s) is/are imaginary and evil.

What are your thoughts about the four options?

I think that they overcomplicate the question of existing in a creation created by GOD(s) which in turn leads one to overcomplicated conclusions.

On the premise that we exist within a creation, the idea of a creator/creators being 'good' or 'evil' are unnecessary to the answering of said question.

If we exist within a created thing, then there must exist a creator/creators.

What is there about the creation which would thus qualify "good" and "evil" to any extent wherein we could think of said creator/s as being either "good" or "evil", and how would that change the premise?

given that, the options are simplified;

1. GOD/s exist [we exist within a created thing]
2. GOD/s do not exist. [we exist within a non-created thing].

As to which option is correct...as stand alone ... 50/50.

[TRANSPONDER]

No. You have made the leap of faith, using equivocation as a helpful ejector -seat.

Suppose we live in a creation and that thing (of which the BB which needs no creator other than gravity is a part) has not always existed (which seems plausible) then something created that stuff. we don't know what or hgow.

From there we suddenly find ourselves talking about God. apart from the wink wink use of the term to mean natural processes, how did we get to God as an explanation?

[JoeyKnothead]

No. You have made the leap of faith, using equivocation as a helpful ejector -seat.

Suppose we live in a creation and that thing (of which the BB which needs no creator other than gravity is a part) has not always existed (which seems plausible) then something created that stuff. we don't know what or hgow.

From there we suddenly find ourselves talking about God. apart from the wink wink use of the term to mean natural processes, how did we get to God as an explanation?

The point stands...

We either live in a created thing. Using "Oh, Great Creator", or "God", or just plain ol' "Creator thing there" in reference. William doesn't much care what term we wanna use here. Pick one, he'll run with that.

Or we don't live in a created thing, and what we call that creator thing there is kinda moot. Again, it won't fret William here too bad either.

He'll use what terms he thinks the rhetorical you would understand, not terms he thinks'll trick ya.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #273]

1. God(s) is/are real and good.
2. God(s) is/are real and evil.
3. God(s) is/are imaginary and good.
4. Gods(s) is/are imaginary and evil.

What are your thoughts about the four options?

I think that they overcomplicate the question of existing in a creation created by GOD(s) which in turn leads one to overcomplicated conclusions.

On the premise that we exist within a creation, the idea of a creator/creators being 'good' or 'evil' are unnecessary to the answering of said question.

If we exist within a created thing, then there must exist a creator/creators.

What is there about the creation which would thus qualify "good" and "evil" to any extent wherein we could think of said creator/s as being either "good" or "evil", and how would that change the premise?

given that, the options are simplified;

1. GOD/s exist [we exist within a created thing]
2. GOD/s do not exist. [we exist within a non-created thing].

As to which option is correct...as stand alone ... 50/50.

Thank you for your reply.

Here are some examples of suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

99.9% of all the species to exist so far on Earth are already extinct. Why would a good God do that? Please see https://nautil.us/top-10-design-flaws-i ... dy-235403/ Why would there be flaws in the human body if an all-knowing and all-powerful God created us?

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #277]

Why would a good God do that?

AS I pointed out, I do not include questions of good and evil in my appraisal of the question of existing within a created thing.

Re that, the question can be reversed if I were to provide you with links to 'good' things re nature and ask you "Why would an evil god do that?"

Each question and subsequent answer really only provides opportunity for folk to take issue and sides and continue with the endless debate.

Whereas simplifying the facts as they are re the question as to whether we exist within a created thing, diverts one away from said endless debate and brings one into focus with arguably better things.

Why would there be flaws in the human body if an all-knowing and all-powerful God created us?

Why should we assume that if we exist within a created thing, that the creator/s would be "all-knowing and all-powerful" especially since the evidence does not appear to support such notions?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #277]

Why would a good God do that?

AS I pointed out, I do not include questions of good and evil in my appraisal of the question of existing within a created thing.

Re that, the question can be reversed if I were to provide you with links to 'good' things re nature and ask you "Why would an evil god do that?"

Each question and subsequent answer really only provides opportunity for folk to take issue and sides and continue with the endless debate.

Whereas simplifying the facts as they are re the question as to whether we exist within a created thing, diverts one away from said endless debate and brings one into focus with arguably better things.

Why would there be flaws in the human body if an all-knowing and all-powerful God created us?

Why should we assume that if we exist within a created thing, that the creator/s would be "all-knowing and all-powerful" especially since the evidence does not appear to support such notions?

We should not assume anything. I don't know if God or Gods exist or not. That's why I am an agnostic. I don't know if the universe was created or not. I have lots of unanswered questions. I wish all living things were all-knowing and all-powerful. That way we could all be forever happy.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #279]

We should not assume anything.

Agreed.

I don't know if God or Gods exist or not. That's why I am an agnostic.

Understood.

I don't know if the universe was created or not. I have lots of unanswered questions.

Acknowledged.

I wish all living things were all-knowing and all-powerful. That way we could all be forever happy.

We should not assume anything.