How does atheism supply meaning?

[Wootah]

We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

It's why I don't believe there are atheists. No one can truly hold that view and I certainly don't think any atheists on this site really drink that cup to the full. I tried. Once. A long time ago.

Obviously, people do hold this view, less the meaningless part that was added to poison the well.
For those that are uncomfortable with said view, there are religious options available to fulfill the need to have purpose supplied to them.

What I can't understand is how it is a struggle for some to find purpose in this life and then seem to project that on to others that don't suffer from such a thing. I personally treat this life as something special and have plenty of purpose, because for all I know, it is the only one we will get. The idea of this life being a test for some other life actually would make this life less meaningful as the next would become the true goal. Therefore, could it be argued that atheism supplies more meaning/value for this life than religions in general? Those that struggle to find purpose without religion would obviously not be able to see this and would then be susceptible making claims like we see above.

"No one can truly hold that view" would therefore simply be a projection.

How does atheism supply meaning?

[Wootah]

No. You have no call to try to control the discussion like a show trial. Atheism does NOT supply meaning. It is no more expected to than 'No, 2+2 does not = 5" 'provides meaning'. It is a rejection of a claim.That's all. Now you next point is ok. Humanism Is, I would say, what you mean when you say that atheism should provide meaning. But humanism does not reject the god claim. It is open to anyone who thinks the world should run on secular thought not religious. And that is how a lot of theists think and act, even if they drag religion into it.

Maybe it's just a small tweak.If you say 'humanist' or 'secularist', then we can talk, but to demand that atheism do what you demand (it provide a worldview of Meaning) or it fails if it doesn't is a false argument from the start.

And with your final line, there is obviously room for agreement if you don't confuse atheism with humanism. The fact is that people find meaning in their lives without dragging religion into it, atheist or not. It is true that some let religious belief dictate or at least control their life, and even worse, those of others (or try to). Which is at least why we have to push back against religion, apart from offering an alternate view to those who have questions but get no satisfactory answers from religion.

Pretty sure the OP gets to decide the topic and good manners are to keep to the topic. Generally speaking, a common move of my debate opponents on a topic is to move to another topic. It's a classic sign of losing on the actual topic.

Are all atheists humanists? What evidence from the actual history of humans gives anyone confidence in humanism?

Anyway, I think you agree atheism provides no meaning. It's a non starter for debating between Christianity and whatever else.

[TRANSPONDER]

No. You have no call to try to control the discussion like a show trial. Atheism does NOT supply meaning. It is no more expected to than 'No, 2+2 does not = 5" 'provides meaning'. It is a rejection of a claim.That's all. Now you next point is ok. Humanism Is, I would say, what you mean when you say that atheism should provide meaning. But humanism does not reject the god claim. It is open to anyone who thinks the world should run on secular thought not religious. And that is how a lot of theists think and act, even if they drag religion into it.

Maybe it's just a small tweak.If you say 'humanist' or 'secularist', then we can talk, but to demand that atheism do what you demand (it provide a worldview of Meaning) or it fails if it doesn't is a false argument from the start.

And with your final line, there is obviously room for agreement if you don't confuse atheism with humanism. The fact is that people find meaning in their lives without dragging religion into it, atheist or not. It is true that some let religious belief dictate or at least control their life, and even worse, those of others (or try to). Which is at least why we have to push back against religion, apart from offering an alternate view to those who have questions but get no satisfactory answers from religion.

Pretty sure the OP gets to decide the topic and good manners are to keep to the topic. Generally speaking, a common move of my debate opponents on a topic is to move to another topic. It's a classic sign of losing on the actual topic.

Are all atheists humanists? What evidence from the actual history of humans gives anyone confidence in humanism?

Anyway, I think you agree atheism provides no meaning. It's a non starter for debating between Christianity and whatever else.

Wrong. Atheism does not provide meanings and it is wrong to demand that it does. That is not what the debate is about. Which I guess you know as you use the vague 'whatever else' when you mean debate between Christianity and non -belief. Since you drag 'good manners' into it, it is good manners to be honest with the other fellow, even if you can't with yourself. Even without the slitherine ploy of playing the topic card when you know as well as I that this forum is given room to stray way off topic. Not to mention theists being just as bad (if not worse) at switching topic if they are struggling.

Why do you want to know whether all atheists are humanists? It makes no difference to atheists being people who don't believe in any god and humanists being people who live by secular mores (I'll check the definition (1) whether they are religious or not. It's what you do too, since you don't try to turn on your computer with prayer but with technology. But of course, you are trying to shift the subject to 'the mundane world is not perfect, we need religion'. The religious worlds never looked that good either.

(1) Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism or other supernatural beliefs, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good. (just the first def.on Google. Looks right to me).

Which is different from Atheism - disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (first -page Google def. ) and I consider atheism a subset of rationality. "the quality of being based on or in accordance with reason or logic." Science of course being the interpretation of data using reason and logic.

[JoeyKnothead]

Count me with TRANSPONDER here.

Atheism is a non belief. Where one finds meaning lies beyond that fact.
Theism is a belief. Where one finds meaning is beyond that fact.

We gotta be careful about our conclusions here...

Does the belief alone in a god provide some superior sense of meaning not afforded the atheist?

It would seem the only superior meaning here the theist can resort to is a superior sense of self.

Recall, the Christian finds meaning in a book of claims that denigrates and threatens nonbelievers, as it cajoles and comforts the believer.

We atheists find meaning in our lives without having to rely on claims in a book to do it. Oh sure, we find meaning in good ol' Calvin and Hobbes, and them old Looney Tunes cartoons. We find meaning in the sound of a tractor cranking up before it's even daylight yet. We find meaning in being called "Papa". We find meaning in letting the grandgirls put on our makeup, or doing our nails, and the pretty thing laughing out loud when she sees us all purtied up. It's just we don't expect folks to burn in Hell if they don't cotton to how we find our meaning in life.

So if the Christian needs to think atheists live meaningless, empty lives, ain't gonna be nothing we can do to fix that. Remember, they've come to errant conclusions on the god thing, so the history's there to suggest they'd do em an errant again.

Maybe we atheists need to work more on finding our meanings in containing and eradicating ignorant, toxic religious beliefs everywhere we can.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #192]

Stop gaslighting me - the topic is 'How does atheism supply meaning?'

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #192]

Stop gaslighting me - the topic is 'How does atheism supply meaning?'

I think you're not understanding how the referenced post actually gets at notions the OP invokes.

[boatsnguitars]

Also, how does Theism provide meaning? To exist for eternity next to God just basking in the glow? Is that a meaningful life? How so?

Even if God exists, which hasn't been shown, I don't see how Theism provides meaning beyond the same kind of meaning available to Atheists: we make it up for ourselves.

I think the OP is another case of a Theist believing the propaganda from their pastor and letting their love of Theism write checks their Reason can't cash.

Edit: Come to think of it. If I were to have to simply bask in the glow of God for eternity, I think I'd freak out. It'd be like being buried alive. No wonder Satan rebelled!
God, you gotta let your pets out for a walk every once in a while!

Anyway, you are turning the question around.

First - it shows you are defeated on the topic in question. My point in this thread is that if atheism supplies meaning then that is awesome but if it doesn't then really debating against atheism is pointless, atheists should debate on what gives them meaning versus Christianity.

But let's run with it, how does Theism provide meaning? Well, my first response is I guess we could be literal - God gives you meaning like He gave you a body.

But really what is meaning is a fair question. I never regarded meaning as having some kind of glow from God. I mean what gets you out of bed each day apart from biology? maybe what do you do with your day after you have had breakfast? Given how much effort goes into surviving meaning might just come from that?

What is the first word of my post? Your desperate attempt at winning an argument is sad. You are so desperate, you'll just start declaring yourself the victor, regardless.

But, OK:

Atheism provides meaning because it gives us a reason to attack and berate Theists. It gives us a reason to do whatever we want, including eat babies, kill en masse, and have sex with anything we want.

Can Theism provide that same meaning? (Actually, I've read the OT - it does exactly that...)

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #192]

Stop gaslighting me - the topic is 'How does atheism supply meaning?'

You're trying to gaslight me. The point I made is not that wasn't the topic but the forum is lax about sticking to it so you were trying to cheat and be evasive by playing the 'topic' card. And now you are tyrying to gaslight me by pretending I was gaslighting you.

In fact i love it as it just makes you look very bad, and God knows how often I've found myself showing Bible apologists up that way.

[TRANSPONDER]

Also, how does Theism provide meaning? To exist for eternity next to God just basking in the glow? Is that a meaningful life? How so?

Even if God exists, which hasn't been shown, I don't see how Theism provides meaning beyond the same kind of meaning available to Atheists: we make it up for ourselves.

I think the OP is another case of a Theist believing the propaganda from their pastor and letting their love of Theism write checks their Reason can't cash.

Edit: Come to think of it. If I were to have to simply bask in the glow of God for eternity, I think I'd freak out. It'd be like being buried alive. No wonder Satan rebelled!
God, you gotta let your pets out for a walk every once in a while!

Anyway, you are turning the question around.

First - it shows you are defeated on the topic in question. My point in this thread is that if atheism supplies meaning then that is awesome but if it doesn't then really debating against atheism is pointless, atheists should debate on what gives them meaning versus Christianity.

But let's run with it, how does Theism provide meaning? Well, my first response is I guess we could be literal - God gives you meaning like He gave you a body.

But really what is meaning is a fair question. I never regarded meaning as having some kind of glow from God. I mean what gets you out of bed each day apart from biology? maybe what do you do with your day after you have had breakfast? Given how much effort goes into surviving meaning might just come from that?

What is the first word of my post? Your desperate attempt at winning an argument is sad. You are so desperate, you'll just start declaring yourself the victor, regardless.

But, OK:

Atheism provides meaning because it gives us a reason to attack and berate Theists. It gives us a reason to do whatever we want, including eat babies, kill en masse, and have sex with anything we want.

Can Theism provide that same meaning? (Actually, I've read the OT - it does exactly that...)

It'll do. Mind, even if atheism can be shown to provide a Lifetime meaning in itself (posting here is a pretty big thing for me, too) they can talk about idols and false gods. But that's the Faithbased back to front thinking, and at least atheism and the aim and initiative it may provide is real, whereas there is no reason to see the idols, graven images and icons of Christianity as anything but false.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #192]

Stop gaslighting me - the topic is 'How does atheism supply meaning?'

You're trying to gaslight me. The point I made is not that wasn't the topic but the forum is lax about sticking to it so you were trying to cheat and be evasive by playing the 'topic' card. And now you are tyrying to gaslight me by pretending I was gaslighting you.

In fact i love it as it just makes you look very bad, and God knows how often I've found myself showing Bible apologists up that way.

OK I guess that supplies you with meaning. Pretty sure I wrote the thread.

[Wootah]

Atheism provides meaning because it gives us a reason to attack and berate Theists. It gives us a reason to do whatever we want, including eat babies, kill en masse, and have sex with anything we want.

OK well, this thread served its purpose I suppose.

I suspect that if you can do anything you want then everything is meaningless.

It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.