JEHOVAH ELOHYM SAID, BEHOLD MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL.

[Eddie Ramos]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?
I would like to put forth that they became like Jesus Christ, because it was only Jesus Christ who became sin and died for sin before the world began. So, when he (Jesus) created the world, he (as ONE of the three in the Godhead) was the one who had already knew good and evil.

[Miles]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

Thank you for the scriptures, however, since God is very specific with the words he chose, in this particular verse (Gen 3:22) he tells us who exactly is in view here, or who exactly God is referring to, by using his own name, JEHOVAH. In other words, He didn't just say, and "ELOHYM said, man is become as one of us...". In which case, your argument would have a firmer position.

Really! So which translation below contains god's "very specific words he chose"?

Genesis 3:22 (ERV)
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”

Genesis 3:22 (AMP)
And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”—

Genesis 3:22 (DRA)
And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

Genesis 3:22 (CJB)
(A: v, S: iv) Adonai, God, said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever — ”

Genesis 3:22 (VOICE)
God: Look, the human has become like one of Us, possessing the knowledge of good and evil. If We don’t do something, he will reach out his hand and take some of the fruit from the tree of life, eat it, and live forever.

Genesis 3:22 (OJB)
And Hashem Elohim said, See, HaAdam is become like one of Us, knowing tov v’rah; and now, lest he put forth his yad, and take also of HaEtz HaChayyim, and eat, and chai l’olam (live forever);

Genesis 3:22 (WYC)
and said, Lo! Adam is made as one of us, and knoweth good and evil; now therefore see ye, lest peradventure he put [out] his hand, and take [also] of the tree of life, and eat, and live without end.

Or do we simply cherry pick the Bible we use?

.

In order to determine (not cherry pick) we can examine any translation against the original Hebrew text to see which translations best line up with the word God chose to use. So, the translations are not the standard by which we determine truth, the original Hebrew and Greek texts are. Once you have done your work on these, eliminating the bad translations becomes easy.

All the Hebrew texts? You do recognize, do you not, that there is no such a thing as "the original Hebrew text"? That instead there are many, many varying Hebrew texts. In fact, there are:

2 Proto-Masoretic from Second Temple period (1st century) sources

2 Proto-Masoretic from "Silent Period" (2nd-10th century) sources

11 Masoretic (7th–10th century) sources

20 Later (11th-17th century) sources

3 Modern source discoveries

PLUS several hundred Dead Sea Scrolls and fragments from Qumran

Because there's considerable differences between a lot of what these various sources say and how they say them, what you read as thee Hebrew source of OT verses are frequently filled with assumptions, conjectures, hunches, inferences, and best guesses gathered from these many sources..

Just consider this remark from the Wikipedia article on the list of Hebrew Bible manuscripts (also my source for the Hebrew material listed above):

"The first list of the Old Testament manuscripts in Hebrew, made by Benjamin Kennicott (1718–1783) and published by Oxford in 2 volumes in 1776 and 1780, listed 615 manuscripts from libraries in England and on the Continent."

615 various manuscripts! Think they were all alike? Hardly. Think all the Bibles in print today are alike? Of course they're not.

So anyone claiming to have read the "original Hebrew text" is not only pulling your leg but doesn't know what they're talking about. It's taken years upon years of dedicated scholarship to come up with the translations we do have, and even those are questionable. Simply consider the various translations of Genesis 3:22 we read in English. How trustworthy is any single one of them? Not very. And neither are the various Hebrew sources they are based on.


.

Wikipedia is not my authority, the Bible is.

So, what does the Bible have to say about all the various disparate Hebrew manuscripts and pieces of scripture lying around?

And the Bible tells me that God is the one who preserved his Word pure forever.

Then why let so many contradictions and falsehoods remain?

.

[1213]

...
We could also understand the verse to say, "And JEHOVAH God said, behold, man is become as one of us..". Thus we can see that God (as a plural triune Godhead) was speaking to himself. Here's another time he did the same thing, except this time, he leaves out the plural word "elohym", yet he (JEHOVAH) still refers to himself as more than one....

Sorry, I don't think there is Biblical support for the idea that God is speaking of himself in plural.

[onewithhim]

First,there is no "godhead."

Thanks, but most of what you said is incorrect. First, by the term "godhead", I mean that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God. You may not see this, nor agree with it, but I would be happy to discuss this in another thread, as it may veer this thread off its intended course.

Jehovah said to His Son Jesus that man had become like them---deciding for themselves what is good or bad. So we have Jehovah, the Father and God (see John 20:17), for one Person, and we have Jesus His Son, another Person, both talking to each other and observing what the first human pair were doing.

This is also incorrect when you said, "Jehovah said to His Son Jesus that man had become like them---deciding for themselves what is good or bad".

The problem seems to be that you're reading from the NLT and may be thinking that this translation is faithful to the Hebrew text. But the NLT is like a paraphrased Bible in which the translators are just conveying their thoughts on what the passage must mean by what the text actually says. So, this leads too much changing of the text, adding and taking words away.

You mean the NWT---New World Translation. This translation is truly faithful to the Hebrew Text. It is not paraphrased. Someone has told you a lie. If you compared various versions of the Bible, you would see that the NWT is very close to the Hebrew text. You should examine a non-JW book written by Jason BeDuhn, "Truth in Translation." He is an author with no bones to pick. He finds the NWT to be the best translation, the second being the New American Bible. If you have read it, give it another go. You don't speak from knowledge, you parrot what someone has told you. Unlike JWs who study thoroughly and research endlessly. No words are added to the NWT that don't follow the way that translators always adjust the wording to follow rules concerning how Hebrew and Greek are to be translated into English. You can see, if you try, that ALL versions of the Bible do this "adding" of words. (See, e.g., Matthew 6:30 in the King James Version.) All words in italics are added words.

[Difflugia]

You mean the NWT---New World Translation. ... Someone has told you a lie.

It's a simple mistake. The NLT (New Living Translation) is a paraphrase and is presumably what Eddie Ramos thought was the preferred translation of Witnesses.

That said, given this assertion...

Unlike JWs who study thoroughly and research endlessly.

... what data from your research support your assertion that the NWT is "truly faithful to the Hebrew Text?"

Furthermore, you claim the following:

No words are added to the NWT that don't follow the way that translators always adjust the wording to follow rules concerning how Hebrew and Greek are to be translated into English.

If that's not hyperbole (or a tautology?), how did you arrive at that conclusion? Or did "you parrot what someone has told you?"

[tigger 2]

NWT 'exposed' by trinitarian scholars:

https://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.co ... -such.html

[onewithhim]

You mean the NWT---New World Translation. ... Someone has told you a lie.

It's a simple mistake. The NLT (New Living Translation) is a paraphrase and is presumably what Eddie Ramos thought was the preferred translation of Witnesses.

That said, given this assertion...

Unlike JWs who study thoroughly and research endlessly.

... what data from your research support your assertion that the NWT is "truly faithful to the Hebrew Text?"

Furthermore, you claim the following:

No words are added to the NWT that don't follow the way that translators always adjust the wording to follow rules concerning how Hebrew and Greek are to be translated into English.

If that's not hyperbole (or a tautology?), how did you arrive at that conclusion? Or did "you parrot what someone has told you?"

As I said....I have researched and taken the time to compare versions and inspect Interlinear versions as well. I continue to study, every day. I do not accept something just because someone told me it is true. I prove it to myself.

[Difflugia]

As I said....

Yes. Ad nauseum.

I have researched and taken the time to compare versions and inspect Interlinear versions as well. I continue to study, every day. I do not accept something just because someone told me it is true. I prove it to myself.

Beyond having "said," you've yet to offer convincing details of that in any context. I'm asking for at least a few in this one.

[myth-one.com]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

There are two type of living bodies, natural and spiritual.

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

When God spoke in Genesis 3:22, those present were God, Adam, Eve, and one or more other spiritual bodied beings.

The "us" God is speaking about are the other spiritual bodied beings present!

He is not speaking to any "ONE" as "us" is plural.

If Adam and Eve were allowed to eat of the Tree of Life, they would gain everlasting life like God and the other spirits in the Garden at that time.

When Adam & Eve sinned by eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they became like God and the angels because they understood good and evil -- like God and the angels.

Therefore, there is now only one characteristic difference between mankind and God.

That difference is body type -- natural versus spiritual. Or mortal versus immortal.

Thus they were expelled from the Garden to separate them from the Tree of Life, so they could not eat from it and live forever like God and the angels.

The scriptures were then written to teach mankind how to gain immortality.

[Eddie Ramos]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

There are two type of living bodies, natural and spiritual.

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

When God spoke in Genesis 3:22, those present were God, Adam, Eve, and one or more other spiritual bodied beings.

The "us" God is speaking about are the other spiritual bodied beings present!

He is not speaking to any "ONE" as "us" is plural.

If Adam and Eve were allowed to eat of the Tree of Life, they would gain everlasting life like God and the other spirits in the Garden at that time.

When Adam & Eve sinned by eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they became like God and the angels because they understood good and evil -- like God and the angels.

Therefore, there is now only one characteristic difference between mankind and God.

That difference is body type -- natural versus spiritual. Or mortal versus immortal.

Thus they were expelled from the Garden to separate them from the Tree of Life, so they could not eat from it and live forever like God and the angels.

The scriptures were then written to teach mankind how to gain immortality.

Gen 3:22 has nothing to do with what type of body one had (spiritual or physical). It has to do with who was JEHOVAH speaking to when he said, "man has become as one of us to know good and evil". The only one of the godhead that knew good and evil was Christ. There is no scripture that alludes to JEHOVAH speaking to angels. To further support this (that JEHOVAH (the triune godhead) was talking to himself), the Bible gives us another example of JEHOVAH referring to himself as "US".

Genesis 11:5–8 (KJV 1900)
And JEHOVAH came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And JEHOVAH said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, LET US go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech. 8 So JEHOVAH scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

We must never take any scripture for granted just because it goes against any doctrine we hold to be true. So, anyone who ignores passages like this one, for the sake of maintaining their own "truth", is doing themselves a great disservice.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHY DID GOD SAY LET US GO DOWN [TO BABEL] (Genesis 11:5–8)?

Because Jesus [The Word] is always in complete harmoney with God, so when His Father does something Jesus (whoJohn 1:1 says was with God), would be the with YHWH the Almighty in the endeavor. This however does not mean they are equal in power, rank or position (notice it was YHWH / Jehovah that proposed the action, not the Son to whom he spoke). Indeed Jesus himself said he does nothing of his own initiative. Hence, for example with the confusion of the languages of Babel, we know it could not have been Jesus (in his prehuman existence as The Word) that here initiated the move.


NOTE The expression "the triune godhead" is not in scripture so can be ignored




JW





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