Athetotheist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:49 pm
So why isn't there an image there?
No idea was you're claiming here. Again, I haven't even proposed any mechanism yet
Why not?
You've been the one insisting on sticking to the topic of the TS. Well, this
is the topic of the TS, so come across with the goods if you have them.
I'm trying to be methodical about my arguments. I haven't even presented the arguments the body was Jesus yet.
Athetotheist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:29 pmI'm still seeing a discrepancy between the numbers in these links and the posts they take me to, but this link takes me to the post in which you make that silly argument about 40,000-year-old coal deposits.
It's silly because skeptics use the exact same reasoning with the C-14 dating.
On 12 December 2003, Rogers received samples of both warp and weft threads that Luigi Gonella claimed to have taken from the radiocarbon sample before it was distributed for dating. The actual provenance of these threads is uncertain, as Gonella was not authorized to take or retain genuine shroud material,[44]
The above cites this as the source:
Schafersman, Steven D. (14 March 2005). "A Skeptical Response to Studies on the Radiocarbon Sample from the Shroud of Turin by Raymond N. Rogers". llanoestacado.org.
However, this source is no longer accessible, so this claim cannot be confirmed.
Here's additional confirmation the sample from Gonella were from the C-14 area and that he was authorized to keep the sample:
We know that all of the remaining samples from the April 1988 sampling were kept by Riggi and
Gonella with the non-written but undisputable authorization of cardinal Ballestrero. This is also true
for the reserve sample since Gonella wrote in paper 11 : “the reserve sample was entrusted by the
Custodian to Gonella and Riggi …”
The two warp and weft Rogers radiocarbon threads are genuine threads from the
Reserve (or perhaps from the trimmed band for the warp). They were first sent by Gonella to Adler
in 1988.Gonella had kept them in safe with the authorization of Card Ballestrero. A number of letters
and documents found in the LGC demonstrate that the remaining 1988 samples, including
the Reserve, were therefore under the custody of Riggi and Gonella. These samples could be used for
possible further scientific studies or in case of contestation. This is exactly what happened. Gonella
sent some of them to Adler in 1988. Much later, some of them were then given to Rogers and the
chain of custody is clear. Moreover, it is now possible to understand why the Rogers’ samples came
from “the center of the radiocarbon sample” as Gonella said.
https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/stlheimburgerpaper.pdf
In 1987, carbon dating at three prestigious laboratories agreed well with his date: 1355 by microscopy and 1325 by C-14 dating.
I've never heard of a 1355 date by microscopy. Can you provide more details?
The suggestion that the 1532 Chambery fire changed the date of the cloth is ludicrous.
Though some might claim this, I've never claimed this. As a matter of fact, I
agree with the dates of the C-14 dating. My argument the date is invalid is it contained recent cotton, not because of a contamination by the 1532 fire.
A weight of 20th century carbon equaling nearly two times the weight of the Shroud carbon itself would be required to change a 1st century date to the 14th century (see Amount of Modern Biological Contaminant Required to Raise the Date of a 36 A.D. Shroud).
Even if it was a 2:1 ratio of recent to original material, it could still be possible the C-14 sample could've had that ratio. Nobody knows the exact amount of cotton in the sample. And nobody knows the dating of the cotton fibers either.
Besides this, the linen cloth samples were very carefully cleaned before analysis at each of the C-dating laboratories.
How would you know they removed the cotton fibers? They don't even have a report of contaminants found or photographic evidence of what was done during pretreatment.
