Is Christianity homophobic?

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Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #1

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Christians are often accused of being homophobic. So then I question why do people call themselves Christians in this day and age. I've searched the internet for a response. Of course, there are those Christians that try to make a case that homosexuality is not condemned by the Bible. But in this thread, I want to focus on those Christians that believe that being homosexual or engaging in same-sex behavior is wrong.

Here's one perspective I've found:
By Oxford Languages’ definition, homophobia can be as simple as a dislike for or as strong as a prejudice toward LGBT+ community members. While the word “phobia” implies a fear, homophobia has been used to describe everything from refusing to make a cake for a homosexual wedding to death penalties for homosexuals.

Christians are often accused of homophobia, often specifically because we stand for God’s holy design of sexual relations: one man and one woman united in marriage. It is never wrong for Christians to make a stand for biblical principle

However, true homophobia––prejudice against or hatred of homosexuals––is also sin. Prejudice is never biblical. We are never called to hatred but to love others as Christ loved us. Christians should not condone the homosexual lifestyle, but they should also not hate, degrade or condescend to those who identify as homosexual.
Source: https://www.collegianonline.com/2021/03 ... omophobic/

If I'm understanding correctly, it seems the author is trying to make a distinction between disagreeing with homosexuality and "prejudice and hatred of homosexuals". In another place, the author also refers to homophobia as a "fear".

For debate:
1. Is the author's distinction correct? Does 'homophobia' involve any type of belief or action (e.g. simply saying that it is wrong) that goes against homosexuality? Or does it just involve "hatred and prejudice"?

2. Is it even possible to believe that homosexuality is wrong but not to hate it or be prejudiced towards it?
Last edited by AgnosticBoy on Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

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Post by Wootah »

boatsnguitars wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:47 pm Uganda.

Yes, Christianity and many Christians are homophobic.

Notice that when Christians talk about homosexuality, even the ones who aren't against people being gay talk about "hate the sin, not the sinner", or, "it's unnatural, but I'm ok with it".

That is, they rarely say: " why would I have a problem with who loves who? Love is great. I think it's great when two people find a partner to love and cherish."

You will always get expressions of disgust, negative comments, it's a sin, it's not Biblical, it's like other prohibitions, it's all about the act of sex - but they don't do the same with breeders, etc.

It's never about Love.

Because Christianity doesn't teach that. It's homophobic.
There is no question.
I don't think love exists outside of Christian God. How do you know love exists within your ideology.

The atheist evolutionary part of me understands homosexuality even less. Imagine billions of years of your ancestors surviving and reproducing and then dishonouring them by being homosexual.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #12

Post by brunumb »

Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 pm Personally I think homosexuality is a mental illness. Not in a hard-wired way but some sort of deep-seated 'cope way' that it gets to a point where people just want to be accepted as they are rather than deal with it.
Please explain how that works with homosexuality. How does being homosexual help one cope with anything?
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #13

Post by boatsnguitars »

Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:17 pm I don't think love exists outside of Christian God. How do you know love exists within your ideology.

The atheist evolutionary part of me understands homosexuality even less. Imagine billions of years of your ancestors surviving and reproducing and then dishonouring them by being homosexual.
Classic. Wow, your pastors have really messed with your head!

Luckily, the world doesn't have to conform to what you think. Think all you want, you're just wrong. Sadly wrong, and I really mean that. It's a shame people like you exist.

But, I certainly note the homophobia you felt you had to express as a parting shot.
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A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #14

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 pm I am Christian. I think homosexuality is a sin. I don't think I am homophobic. If there is a phobia for homsexuality I imagine religion is not a factor like most phobias would not have religion as a factor.
I appreciate you sharing. I was beginning to think that this topic was too sensitive for Christians to want to discuss, as if they'd inevitably get themselves into trouble.
Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 pm1 . Judge not lest ye be judged. So I think prejudice would be wrong. I would not hate on anyone because of their sin. I would not also condone their sin and would act differently around them as appropriate to their sin.
I like that perspective!
Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 pm2. Personally I think homosexuality is a mental illness. Not in a hard-wired way but some sort of deep-seated 'cope way' that it gets to a point where people just want to be accepted as they are rather than deal with it. I can see that in other areas of life for my immediate family who don't want to revisit old wounds and be healed but want you to believe they are who they are. I can see that for myself. There are aspects of me that I know God wants to change but I still say to God come on man, not that as well.
The one big challenge for your view is getting it validated. The evidence shows that sexual orientation is much more ingrained than what you believe it to be. For instance, we can look at the success rate of reparative therapy. I presume that the vast majority of gays who have entered such therapy programs have given their best effort but still find themselves struggling with same-sex attractions.

Interestingly though, there is evidence that we can expand our sexual orientation (e.g. sexual fluidity), like going straight to bi or gay to bi. Based on this, I think it's very possible for a gay person to eventually accept being with the opposite sex by shifting to bisexuality.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #15

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #14]

I think if you look without bias how fast the science changed you can see, without bias, that biased people changed the science.

We have fought a magnificently vane race against God and biology for the last 100 years and are no better for it.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #16

Post by Wootah »

boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:39 am
Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:17 pm I don't think love exists outside of Christian God. How do you know love exists within your ideology.

The atheist evolutionary part of me understands homosexuality even less. Imagine billions of years of your ancestors surviving and reproducing and then dishonouring them by being homosexual.
Classic. Wow, your pastors have really messed with your head!

Luckily, the world doesn't have to conform to what you think. Think all you want, you're just wrong. Sadly wrong, and I really mean that. It's a shame people like you exist.

But, I certainly note the homophobia you felt you had to express as a parting shot.
Try to use the forum to debate. I am expressing my earnest opinion so as to have a debate.

Your time. Your choice.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #17

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Wootah wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:00 pm [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #14]

I think if you look without bias how fast the science changed you can see, without bias, that biased people changed the science.

We have fought a magnificently vane race against God and biology for the last 100 years and are no better for it.
I can agree that science can be influenced by political and cultural factors, especially when it comes to the social sciences. Even the LGBT crowd can attest to that since science did a 360 when it no longer classed homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Unlike many other non-believers, I don't accept the "born this way" view for sexual orientation. I'm also way more open in that I accept that sexual orientation can change, but not by choice, or not with choice alone (i.e. you can expand it). I just think Christian groups were trying to do it one way, and that way ended up being the harmful way.

I hope that perspective is more than enough to show that I'm open to evidence whereever it leads.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #18

Post by Wootah »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:42 pm
Wootah wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:00 pm [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #14]

I think if you look without bias how fast the science changed you can see, without bias, that biased people changed the science.

We have fought a magnificently vane race against God and biology for the last 100 years and are no better for it.
I can agree that science can be influenced by political and cultural factors, especially when it comes to the social sciences. Even the LGBT crowd can attest to that since science did a 360 when it no longer classed homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Unlike many other non-believers, I don't accept the "born this way" view for sexual orientation. I'm also way more open in that I accept that sexual orientation can change, but not by choice, or not with choice alone (i.e. you can expand it). I just think Christian groups were trying to do it one way, and that way ended up being the harmful way.

I hope that perspective is more than enough to show that I'm open to evidence whereever it leads.
Oh hey, I could like you. Same. Believe it or not. I don't know what Christian groups did - I don't trust the media at all.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #19

Post by boatsnguitars »

Wootah wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:02 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:39 am
Wootah wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:17 pm I don't think love exists outside of Christian God. How do you know love exists within your ideology.

The atheist evolutionary part of me understands homosexuality even less. Imagine billions of years of your ancestors surviving and reproducing and then dishonouring them by being homosexual.
Classic. Wow, your pastors have really messed with your head!

Luckily, the world doesn't have to conform to what you think. Think all you want, you're just wrong. Sadly wrong, and I really mean that. It's a shame people like you exist.

But, I certainly note the homophobia you felt you had to express as a parting shot.
Try to use the forum to debate. I am expressing my earnest opinion so as to have a debate.

Your time. Your choice.
Firstly, it is important to recognize that love is a universal human experience that is not limited to any particular religion or belief system. Love can be found in many forms, including romantic, familial, and platonic, and is expressed and experienced by people of all faiths and cultures.

Moreover, it is not accurate to say that love exists only within the Christian God. Many religious traditions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam, have their own concepts of love and compassion. Additionally, people who do not adhere to any particular religion can experience and express love in meaningful ways.

Regarding the statement about homosexuality, it is not accurate to view it as a dishonoring of one's ancestors. Homosexuality has been observed in many animal species, and it is likely that it has existed in human societies throughout history. Moreover, science has shown that sexual orientation is not a choice and is influenced by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental factors.

It is important to approach discussions about love and sexuality with an open mind and to recognize the diversity of human experiences and perspectives.

Considering homosexuality a sin or a mental illness is bigotry because it involves discriminating against and stigmatizing an entire group of people based on their sexual orientation. It implies that there is something inherently wrong or abnormal about being attracted to the same gender, which is not supported by scientific evidence.

Furthermore, labeling homosexuality as a sin or mental illness can lead to harmful consequences for LGBTQ+ individuals, such as social exclusion, discrimination, and even violence. It can also prevent them from seeking help or support for their mental health needs or engaging in healthy and consensual relationships.

It is important to recognize and challenge such beliefs and attitudes in order to create a more inclusive and accepting society for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation.

Christianity has played a significant role in the historical and contemporary discrimination and stigmatization of homosexuality. Many Christians interpret the Bible as condemning homosexuality, which has led to a widespread belief that homosexuality is a sin. This belief has been used to justify discrimination, harassment, and violence against the LGBTQ+ community.

Throughout history, Christian institutions and leaders have actively opposed LGBTQ+ rights and promoted harmful conversion therapies, which seek to change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity. Even today, some Christian leaders continue to spread harmful rhetoric and misinformation about homosexuality, which contributes to a hostile and unwelcoming environment for LGBTQ+ individuals in many Christian communities.

It's important to note that not all Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin or that LGBTQ+ individuals should be discriminated against. Many progressive Christian denominations and individual believers advocate for LGBTQ+ rights and inclusion. However, the influence of conservative Christian beliefs and institutions has had a significant impact on the treatment of the LGBTQ+ community in many societies.

People who practice bigotry are bigots. Not my opinion, it's the definition.


You seem to be arguing:

1. Christianity teaches homosexuality is a sin and an abomination.
2. I harbor bigoted feelings toward the LGBTQ+ community because I am a Christian.
Therefore, Christianity is homophobic, but I will say the opposite.

I want to point out the part in bold. That is the group Homophobes have joined. Homophobes are "in bed" with Ugandan's who have passed a law that will make it legal to kill gay people. Homophobes are "in bed" with the thousands of people each year who attack and kill gay people. Homophobes are "in bed" with the millions of people who discriminate against the millions of gay people around the world, causing them irreparable harm in a myriad of ways.

Since you offered your personal opinion on gay people, I will offer mine on Homophobes: I think homophobic bigots are horrible human beings, mentally ill, sinful, should be ashamed of themselves, and I would not shed a millisecond of remorse if they were burned at the stake.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #20

Post by Wootah »

boatsnguitars wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:15 am Firstly, it is important to recognize that love is a universal human experience that is not limited to any particular religion or belief system. Love can be found in many forms, including romantic, familial, and platonic, and is expressed and experienced by people of all faiths and cultures.
I don't think that is the definition of love. Love is a promise. So yes, I think uniquely God is love because he makes and keeps promises.
Regarding the statement about homosexuality, it is not accurate to view it as a dishonoring of one's ancestors. Homosexuality has been observed in many animal species, and it is likely that it has existed in human societies throughout history. Moreover, science has shown that sexual orientation is not a choice and is influenced by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental factors.
Given at least my knowledge of the wretched history of the world and the struggles of those in the past to survive and reproduce I don't see how you have argued against that point.

I also don't think arguments that 'humans are like animals' help your case.

Finally, it is like the horns of the euthyphro dilemma. Do homosexuals (or any of us) choose and so are responsible or is it genetic and so it might be curable?
It is important to recognize and challenge such beliefs and attitudes in order to create a more inclusive and accepting society for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation.
No doubt you will do so. I fear all good people who are justified in doing what they think are good things. Come, Lord Jesus.
Since you offered your personal opinion on gay people, I will offer mine on Homophobes: I think homophobic bigots are horrible human beings, mentally ill, sinful, should be ashamed of themselves, and I would not shed a millisecond of remorse if they were burned at the stake.
I will offer a quote from the holocaust museum.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... socialists

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller

What I mean is the revolutionaries often get surprised when the revolution turns against them and they find themselves on the wall by those more radical.

I know you think you are the good guy in this.

edit: I would also ask that you try to perceive that I might be the better friend of the homosexual. Often affirming another person in what they believe is the worst thing we can do for them.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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