Argument for Atheism (God's Imperfection)

[boatsnguitars]

Theists argue God is Perfect. They use the Ontological Argument or Degrees of Perfection to "prove" this.

However,

1. If God is Perfect, he must act perfectly
2. God created Imperfect Beings.
Therefore, God does not exist.

1. If God is perfect, he would have no reason to consider making anything imperfectly. The reason Theists defend imperfetion is because of age-old stories from ignorant men, not logic. There is - literally - no reason God would have wanted imperfect creatures. He would have had the (perfect) power to create mutliple Gods, which would be the only moral thing to do, or, to do better.
No parent wishes for their child to be lesser than them - no loving parent.
Christianity tries to blame the victim by saying it's Humanities fault there is sin, but - no - God could have created Gods. 2 Perfect Gods would know exactly how to share in perfect harmony. To claim that there can only be one God only shows that your God is no perfect (if he can't handle another perfect being like himself).

2. There is ample evidence we are not perfect beings, in fact, religionists will tell you over and over again you are a sinner.


The best the Theist can do is admit their God must be morally flawed, or lack the power to create perfect beings. They can't claim we are perfect - as I pointed out - they staunchly claim we are not.

In order to defeat this argument, the Theist must explain why a Perfect Being would purposely create something Imperfect.

[Miles]

Theists argue God is Perfect. They use the Ontological Argument or Degrees of Perfection to "prove" this.

However,

1. If God is Perfect, he must act perfectly
2. God created Imperfect Beings.
Therefore, God does not exist.

1. If God is perfect, he would have no reason to consider making anything imperfectly. The reason Theists defend imperfetion is because of age-old stories from ignorant men, not logic. There is - literally - no reason God would have wanted imperfect creatures. He would have had the (perfect) power to create mutliple Gods, which would be the only moral thing to do, or, to do better.
No parent wishes for their child to be lesser than them - no loving parent.
Christianity tries to blame the victim by saying it's Humanities fault there is sin, but - no - God could have created Gods. 2 Perfect Gods would know exactly how to share in perfect harmony. To claim that there can only be one God only shows that your God is no perfect (if he can't handle another perfect being like himself).

2. There is ample evidence we are not perfect beings, in fact, religionists will tell you over and over again you are a sinner.


The best the Theist can do is admit their God must be morally flawed, or lack the power to create perfect beings. They can't claim we are perfect - as I pointed out - they staunchly claim we are not.

In order to defeat this argument, the Theist must explain why a Perfect Being would purposely create something Imperfect.

For what it's worth, as I've previously posted god, in effect, admitted to making mistakes, which to my way thinking is indicative of a less than perfect being.

.

[Purple Knight]

1. If God is Perfect, he must act perfectly

This is something that actually requires a lot of unpacking.

Consider Choice versus Ability. If I trip and fall by accident, I'm not perfect. But if I fake falling over to make fun of someone else, that doesn't mean I'm not perfect. Perfect, to me, just means doesn't have accidents. You may have an argument that God must be [what we think of as] evil, but if he does it all on purpose for a lark, I don't think that means he's imperfect. The more perfect people are often the meanest, and that's not necessarily due to any flaw in them, but may be because of flaws in others, which they are intolerant of.

We have this idea that "perfect" would also mean submissive, tolerant, nice, and understanding. I don't buy it, especially since I see the opposite in people.

[Tcg]

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[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #1]

[boatsnguitars]

1. If God is Perfect, he must act perfectly

This is something that actually requires a lot of unpacking.

Consider Choice versus Ability. If I trip and fall by accident, I'm not perfect. But if I fake falling over to make fun of someone else, that doesn't mean I'm not perfect. Perfect, to me, just means doesn't have accidents. You may have an argument that God must be [what we think of as] evil, but if he does it all on purpose for a lark, I don't think that means he's imperfect. The more perfect people are often the meanest, and that's not necessarily due to any flaw in them, but may be because of flaws in others, which they are intolerant of.

We have this idea that "perfect" would also mean submissive, tolerant, nice, and understanding. I don't buy it, especially since I see the opposite in people.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/perfect-goodness/

[Purple Knight]

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/perfect-goodness/

I don't buy the argument that a "perfectly good" being is better than one that just does as it likes. This is all part of the argument where we imagine up the best qualities a being could have and attribute them to some greatest possible being, which then must exist in all universes because it exists in one.

Being good is something for lesser beings to do, to gain value to other lesser beings, and to greater beings. A "good dog" is one that pleases its master, and a good person is one that puts others first. A god being doesn't need to do these things, and indeed if it puts itself lower than others, it loses value and perfection rather than gaining it.