Offensive Religion?

[boatsnguitars]

I once was called offensive because I wrote Xian. Short hand for Christian. I showed how the history of Christianity is replete with people using X or Chi for Christ. XP, etc.. They still didn't accept it because they thought I "intended to offend", which means that I didn't bow to their demands to "properly" honor their beliefs.

When I said, "Sky Daddy" they were also offended and corrected me by saying, "It's "Father in Heaven". I still don't see the difference.

It seems quite the hip and cool fad now to be offended by any number of things. But I want to restrict this to religious offense.

Why do religious people demand we treat their beliefs with respect?
Why should we care?

Make sure, if you are defending religious demands to respect their chosen beliefs, to include a reference to Charlie Hebdo and Muslim demands that we not show an image of Mohammad (despite there being images of Mohammad from ancient Islamic art). Do you respect that, or just fear the consequences? (Or, are you secretly agreeing that Islam is the one, true religion?)

Which religions do we need to honor? Is there a certain number of people that makes it a "respectable religion" and not a cult? Or, do we need to respect cults, too?
And since other religions tell us "those" religions are evil, how are we supposed to make everyone happy?

Why do religious people get upset when we treat their religions as a joke? (Christians think of how you regard Wicca, or Mormons think how you regard Scientology).

What is the general rule one should follow if you hear someone talking about a ridiculous religious idea?


Please explore this topic with me about what is the Right and Wrong way to show respect to religions, while thinking they are #*#@&% crazy.

[boatsnguitars]

For example, here are some Christians talking about Mormonism:

I don't think Mormons are bad people, but the church does have a history of racism and white supremacy. They didn't start letting black people in until like the '60s I think
My opinion of Muslims is the same.
It would be ridiculous to say all Muslims are bad people but it does take some really bad ideas

Petty? Laughable. Saying Stan and Jesus are brothers denies the Deity
of Christ. Perhaps/unless Satan is your god. I wouldn't doubt that.

Here's a guy talking about the Native Americans:

Alright, time for some hard truths in love.

Horrible things have happened all over the World for many thousands of yrs.

But there seems to be this glammorization in the current culture of what was going on with "indigenous" people all over the World, especially in America.

These were not harmonious, one with the Earth, peace loving people, as depicted in Disneylike movies "Pocahontas".

These were sinful, violent, demon worshipping people, just like people all over the World that didn't have Christ.

Some of these people sacrificed their men, women, and children to these demons regularly.

As horrific as Christopher Columbus, and other explorers and conquerers turned out to be for the natives, and as awful as their conduct was to the people, they DID bring one thing that made an eternal difference to an untold number. THE GOSPEL!!!

God in his mercy brought these men to save some.

Difficult concept to swallow in today's culture, but true nonetheless.

Those people that perpetrated despicable acts against indigenous people WILL answer to God!

But people need to stop focusing on ethnicity (I don't use the word race anymore, as we are ALL ONE RACE) and focus instead on Christ, and stop using the sins of other men to justify their rejection of HIM.

Here he is justifying the genocide because they were evil: they sacrificed they're children. And it was justified because they got the GOSPEL, which, as we all know, was the story of a Father sacrificing His Child....


So, remember, if your God isn't powerful enough to travel to America and teach people the right way, it's OK to kill them in your God's name, since that's the Good thing to do....

[Purple Knight]

I'm going to take a lot of flak for this, but if this was a topic about respecting Muslims, the responses from everyone would be on point.

We can respect people we think are wrong because we always might be wrong and they always might be right. And because, from his point of view, I'm crazy, just as from my point of view, he is.

Respecting differences of opinion used to be something people did because it was beneficial to everyone, if everyone did it. You don't have to believe he's right, because he doesn't believe you're right, and I assume you want the same respect. This isn't how it works in practice, and in practice, respect is always a one-way street, where the dominant chimp cows the subordinate into it. And if the subordinate chimp wants the same, it will be, "Lol, respect is earned. You haven't earned it. If you had, you wouldn't need to ask."

I don't believe in any gods but I have no problem respecting those who do.

As far as cults go, if they're using dirty tactics to get followers and brainwash them, they ought to be called out and maybe even legally punished. If they're just offering membership, even if people think it's annoying, meh, there are worse things in the world.

[boatsnguitars]

I'm going to take a lot of flak for this, but if this was a topic about respecting Muslims, the responses from everyone would be on point.

We can respect people we think are wrong because we always might be wrong and they always might be right. And because, from his point of view, I'm crazy, just as from my point of view, he is.

Respecting differences of opinion used to be something people did because it was beneficial to everyone, if everyone did it. You don't have to believe he's right, because he doesn't believe you're right, and I assume you want the same respect. This isn't how it works in practice, and in practice, respect is always a one-way street, where the dominant chimp cows the subordinate into it. And if the subordinate chimp wants the same, it will be, "Lol, respect is earned. You haven't earned it. If you had, you wouldn't need to ask."

I don't believe in any gods but I have no problem respecting those who do.

As far as cults go, if they're using dirty tactics to get followers and brainwash them, they ought to be called out and maybe even legally punished. If they're just offering membership, even if people think it's annoying, meh, there are worse things in the world.

I think it's more nuanced than "We can respect people we think are wrong because we always might be wrong and they always might be right."

I'm not going to respect people who think gay people (or witches) should be killed. I don't respect people who think their children shouldn't learn about Evolution in school. I don't respect people who think immigrants are "rapists and murderers". I don't respect people who think Democratic Socialism is Communism, and Capitalism is the only system we should adopt. I don't respect people who think Gender dysphoria is a sickness and the people who experience it are unrepentant sinners and deserve to be treated poorly. I don't respect people who think their religious beliefs should translate into public policy. I don't respect people who think scaring children with Hell is a healthy and appropriate way to force compliance of social rules.

Sometimes, you can't divide the "sinner from the sin". Sometimes the difference in opinion is valid. Sometimes someone's opinion is clearly wrong and horrible - and sometimes that person is not worthy of respect.

A man who thinks it's ok to beat his wife, even if she agrees, is not a respectable person - and I don't think that's merely opinion. (sure, it's my opinion, but it's more than that.) I don't think I'd ever agree that it's a difference in opinion. I don't think I should respect the idea or the man.

I don't think whipping a child to the point of drawing blood, or scarring, is an opinion I need to consider, but respect the one who does it.

And, I don't respect people who believe in God. I think it's a silly idea, and while I don't demonize them, I can't respect someone who takes such a ludicrous opinion on reality.

[Miles]

Why do religious people demand we treat their beliefs with respect?

Because such religious people have no sense of common propriety, and evidently feel others should be at the mercy of their demands.

Why should we care?

We shouldn't.

Make sure, if you are defending religious demands to respect their chosen beliefs, to include a reference to Charlie Hebdo and Muslim demands that we not show an image of Mohammad (despite there being images of Mohammad from ancient Islamic art). Do you respect that, or just fear the consequences? (Or, are you secretly agreeing that Islam is the one, true religion?)

I don't defend any religious demands.

Which religions do we need to honor?

I suppose it would be those religions one feels is deserving of honor. Personally, I have no such need.

Is there a certain number of people that makes it a "respectable religion" and not a cult?

What is a "respectable religion"?

Or, do we need to respect cults, too?

Ah, these two questions aren't equivalent. Making something is not equivalent to respecting something else.

And since other religions tell us "those" religions are evil, how are we supposed to make everyone happy?

I don't feel we are supposed to do such as thing. Do you?

What is the general rule one should follow if you hear someone talking about a ridiculous religious idea?

Depends on the relationship between me and the someone. I would not treat a close friend who said such a thing the same way I'd treat some self-appointed street corner evangelist who said the same thing.

.

[Purple Knight]

I'm not going to respect people who think gay people (or witches) should be killed. I don't respect people who think their children shouldn't learn about Evolution in school. I don't respect people who think immigrants are "rapists and murderers". I don't respect people who think Democratic Socialism is Communism, and Capitalism is the only system we should adopt. I don't respect people who think Gender dysphoria is a sickness and the people who experience it are unrepentant sinners and deserve to be treated poorly. I don't respect people who think their religious beliefs should translate into public policy. I don't respect people who think scaring children with Hell is a healthy and appropriate way to force compliance of social rules.

My thinking is in line with you on a lot of these issues, but I give respect to the other side anyway. Let me give you some more socially acceptable versions of your unacceptable positions. I am literally typing over what you said and just replacing the groups that it is socially acceptable to demonise with groups that are golden and protected, and replacing groups that are golden with those that should be demonised. In other words, I'm repeating your words and picking on different people.

Nazis should be killed. Children shouldn't learn about sex positions in school. White people are oppressive to the point of being abusive - all of them. Paedophilia is a sickness and people who have it deserve to be treated poorly. My nonreligious beliefs about morality should translate into public policy. Scaring children with jail is a healthy and appropriate way to force compliance of social rules.

[boatsnguitars]

I'm not going to respect people who think gay people (or witches) should be killed. I don't respect people who think their children shouldn't learn about Evolution in school. I don't respect people who think immigrants are "rapists and murderers". I don't respect people who think Democratic Socialism is Communism, and Capitalism is the only system we should adopt. I don't respect people who think Gender dysphoria is a sickness and the people who experience it are unrepentant sinners and deserve to be treated poorly. I don't respect people who think their religious beliefs should translate into public policy. I don't respect people who think scaring children with Hell is a healthy and appropriate way to force compliance of social rules.

My thinking is in line with you on a lot of these issues, but I give respect to the other side anyway. Let me give you some more socially acceptable versions of your unacceptable positions. I am literally typing over what you said and just replacing the groups that it is socially acceptable to demonise with groups that are golden and protected, and replacing groups that are golden with those that should be demonised. In other words, I'm repeating your words and picking on different people.

Nazis should be killed. Children shouldn't learn about sex positions in school. White people are oppressive to the point of being abusive - all of them. Paedophilia is a sickness and people who have it deserve to be treated poorly. My nonreligious beliefs about morality should translate into public policy. Scaring children with jail is a healthy and appropriate way to force compliance of social rules.

IMO, Religion, as an institution, has had hundreds of generations to prove itself. I don't think we need to respect it anymore. Anymore than we'd respect the idea that Zeus exists and is the cause of things, etc. It's not a respectable position.

While I agree there are many good people, even people who follow religious precepts, I don't attribute the religion to their actions but themselves - and they deserve respect for the good they do. However, I can't respect their ideas if they are regurgitating religious dogma or ideas.

My analogy is if someone gives orphans presents: great! Happy days! If they tell those orphans Santa is going to give them more next year and he actually means a real, supernatural Santa, nope. Not a respectable position.

[Purple Knight]

My analogy is if someone gives orphans presents: great! Happy days! If they tell those orphans Santa is going to give them more next year and he actually means a real, supernatural Santa, nope. Not a respectable position.

But people do lie to their children about Santa, all the time. And for some reason they're not taken to task for it. In fact, if I try to clear it up, I'll be demonised, because the children need to be lied to or some such.

[boatsnguitars]

My analogy is if someone gives orphans presents: great! Happy days! If they tell those orphans Santa is going to give them more next year and he actually means a real, supernatural Santa, nope. Not a respectable position.

But people do lie to their children about Santa, all the time. And for some reason they're not taken to task for it. In fact, if I try to clear it up, I'll be demonised, because the children need to be lied to or some such.

I'd stay far away from the person that would promise orphans that Santa will bring them presents next year, knowing they have no parents at present to present the presents....

[Purple Knight]

My analogy is if someone gives orphans presents: great! Happy days! If they tell those orphans Santa is going to give them more next year and he actually means a real, supernatural Santa, nope. Not a respectable position.

But people do lie to their children about Santa, all the time. And for some reason they're not taken to task for it. In fact, if I try to clear it up, I'll be demonised, because the children need to be lied to or some such.

I'd stay far away from the person that would promise orphans that Santa will bring them presents next year, knowing they have no parents at present to present the presents....

So would I and in fact I'd hate that person, because they're putting it on others to give those children presents. But in the real world that person would be seen as giving of hope, a positive force, and I'd be seen as captain bringdown for not wanting them to make promises when they have no role or control in the fulfillment of those promises.