Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Two hot topics for the price of one

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Zorek
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Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #1

Post by Zorek »

  • 1. Former President Donald Trump took to social media and said he expects to be arrested Tuesday.
  • 2. A grand jury has been hearing testimony related to the 2016 payoff to Stormy Daniels, but no public announcements have been made about when or if Trump will actually be indicted.
  • 3. Trump cited leaks from the “corrupt” Manhattan district attorney’s office and urged his supporters to protest on his behalf. (CNBC)
  • 4. Twitter CEO Elon Musk on Saturday predicted that former President Donald Trump will be re-elected in a "landslide" if he is indicted — or possibly arrested and potentially "handcuffed" — next week.
Question 1: Should Trump be arrested and charged?
Question 2: It has been suggested that a protest could be a part 2 of the Jan 6, 2021 insurrection. Do you agree yes or no and why?
Question 3: Is Elon Musk right in his observation?
To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question...or is it?😎

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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

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Post by Jose Fly »

Redemption Q wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:53 pm As far as your picture goes.... I see no riot, I see people anxious to get inside No weapons. Not even any fist being shown. Just people showing their support for their choice.
Just yesterday I thought I'd seen the dumbest response from a conservative on a message board, but this? I think you may have topped it. "People anxious to get inside"? Either you're trolling, or completely detached from reality.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #12

Post by Jose Fly »

bjs1 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:36 pm Arresting your party’s primary political opponent on something this nebulous is a dangerous. The apparent crime is recording repaying hush money as “legal expenses.”
You're forgetting the case of John Edwards. Indicting, prosecuting, convicting, and even locking up politicians for campaign finance violations is nothing new in US history. The main difference this time around are Trump's implied threats of violence.
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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #13

Post by bjs1 »

Jose Fly wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:46 pm
bjs1 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:36 pm Arresting your party’s primary political opponent on something this nebulous is a dangerous. The apparent crime is recording repaying hush money as “legal expenses.”
You're forgetting the case of John Edwards. Indicting, prosecuting, convicting, and even locking up politicians for campaign finance violations is nothing new in US history. The main difference this time around are Trump's implied threats of violence.
Edwards was a US Senator arrested by the US Department of Justice on six felony accounts. If Trump is arrested then it would be a former president arrested by a politician who is a member of the opposing part on single misdemeanor charge with the unlikely possibility of adding a felony charge.

The DOJ should absolutely prosecute corrupt politicians, but that’s not what is happening here. The differences are striking enough to make the comparison unreasonable.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #14

Post by Jose Fly »

bjs1 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:43 pm Edwards was a US Senator arrested by the US Department of Justice on six felony accounts.
Yep, Edwards was a former Senator, Vice President Candidate (with Kerry), and Presidential candidate. Trump is a former President and a Presidential candidate.
If Trump is arrested then it would be a former president arrested by a politician who is a member of the opposing part on single misdemeanor charge with the unlikely possibility of adding a felony charge.
First of all, we don't know what Trump will be charged with. Second, what you're presenting here is effectively that Democrats can never investigate or prosecute Republicans, which is obviously not how things work. If a prosecutor convinces a grand jury that a person committed crimes, the party affiliation of either is irrelevant.
The DOJ should absolutely prosecute corrupt politicians, but that’s not what is happening here.
Why not?
The differences are striking enough to make the comparison unreasonable.
Nah, they're extremely similar. Both involved a Presidential candidate making hush money payments to cover up an extramarital affair, and then taking steps to hide those payments from campaign finance requirements.
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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #15

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Zorek wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pm Question 1: Should Trump be arrested and charged?
If he broke the law, he should. The question remains though regarding the evidence for the crime.
Zorek wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pmQuestion 2: It has been suggested that a protest could be a part 2 of the Jan 6, 2021 insurrection. Do you agree yes or no and why?
That can happen if political leaders inflame the situation. Turn it into a dire situation, an injustice. That usually gets people riled up.
Zorek wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pmQuestion 3: Is Elon Musk right in his observation?
If Trump is convicted, the legally, he can not be president again. If he is indicted and charges are found to be false and/or politically motivated, then I can see Trump being reelected.
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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #16

Post by historia »

Jose Fly wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:46 pm
bjs1 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:36 pm
Zorek wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pm
Question 1: Should Trump be arrested and charged?
Arresting your party’s primary political opponent on something this nebulous is a dangerous. The apparent crime is recording repaying hush money as "legal expenses."
You're forgetting the case of John Edwards.
In remembering the case against John Edwards, we might also remember that he beat all the charges. Both then and now, legal experts note that it is quite difficult to prove these kind of allegations.

And so a Democratic district attorney going after a former President and leading candidate for the Republican nomination for what is by all accounts a hard-to-prove misdemeanor offense just seems ill-advised, in my opinion.

I deeply appreciate the principle that no one should be above the law, and that, in not pursuing this case, we'd be giving the same guy who led the "lock her up" chants a bit of a pass. But if Trump is going to be indicted for anything, let it be for his interference in the 2020 election and the attack on the Capitol. Those actions, and the authoritarian impulse behind them, pose a real and ongoing threat to the country, and so are worth the political turmoil any indictment would likely bring. A shaky case on paying hush-money to a porn star is not.
Zorek wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pm
Question 3: Is Elon Musk right in his observation?
I don't think so. I think an indictment would likely cause Republicans (including the other Republican candidates) to rally around Trump in the short term, and that might give him a boost in his campaign for the GOP nomination. But it also might cause Republican primary voters to conclude Trump simply has too much baggage to win the general election, and go for DeSantis or another candidate instead.

Either way, I don't think anyone wins the 2024 election in a "landslide," and certainly not Trump.
AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:16 pm
If Trump is convicted, the legally, he can not be president again.
I think that's mistaken. Aside from the age and term limits imposed by the Constitution, the only other thing that would bar Trump from running for President is impeachment. A criminal conviction would not, in itself, prevent him from running.

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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #17

Post by bjs1 »

Jose Fly wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:31 pm First of all, we don't know what Trump will be charged with. Second, what you're presenting here is effectively that Democrats can never investigate or prosecute Republicans, which is obviously not how things work. If a prosecutor convinces a grand jury that a person committed crimes, the party affiliation of either is irrelevant.
If the media accounts can be trusted (see post 10), then we have a pretty good idea of what Trump would be charge with.

I am not saying that a Democrat could never prosecute a Republican, or that a Republican could never prosecute a Democrat. However, if someone is going after his party’s primary antagonist then it should be a rock-solid case on a serious charge. This is a difficult to prove misdemeanor with the possibility of an even more difficult to prove felony. The specifics of this case make me uncomfortable, no matter which party is on the offensive.

The effort to “lock up” political opponents is one of the greatest real threats to democracy in practice.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #18

Post by Jose Fly »

historia wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:27 pm In remembering the case against John Edwards, we might also remember that he beat all the charges. Both then and now, legal experts note that it is quite difficult to prove these kind of allegations.

And so a Democratic district attorney going after a former President and leading candidate for the Republican nomination for what is by all accounts a hard-to-prove misdemeanor offense just seems ill-advised, in my opinion.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I deeply appreciate the principle that no one should be above the law, and that, in not pursuing this case, we'd be giving the same guy who led the "lock her up" chants a bit of a pass. But if Trump is going to be indicted for anything, let it be for his interference in the 2020 election and the attack on the Capitol. Those actions, and the authoritarian impulse behind them, pose a real and ongoing threat to the country, and so are worth the political turmoil any indictment would likely bring. A shaky case on paying hush-money to a porn star is not.
A prosecutor in GA is indeed convening a grand jury to look into Trump's efforts to overturn the election in that state. Unfortunately, GA Republicans are giving themselves the authority to remove prosecutors as they please.
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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #19

Post by Jose Fly »

bjs1 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:44 pm If the media accounts can be trusted (see post 10), then we have a pretty good idea of what Trump would be charge with.

I am not saying that a Democrat could never prosecute a Republican, or that a Republican could never prosecute a Democrat. However, if someone is going after his party’s primary antagonist then it should be a rock-solid case on a serious charge. This is a difficult to prove misdemeanor with the possibility of an even more difficult to prove felony. The specifics of this case make me uncomfortable, no matter which party is on the offensive.

The effort to “lock up” political opponents is one of the greatest real threats to democracy in practice.
Like I said, we'll just have to wait and see then.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

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Re: Donald Trump Getting Indicted & Arrested

Post #20

Post by boatsnguitars »

Zorek wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pm
  • 1. Former President Donald Trump took to social media and said he expects to be arrested Tuesday.
  • 2. A grand jury has been hearing testimony related to the 2016 payoff to Stormy Daniels, but no public announcements have been made about when or if Trump will actually be indicted.
  • 3. Trump cited leaks from the “corrupt” Manhattan district attorney’s office and urged his supporters to protest on his behalf. (CNBC)
  • 4. Twitter CEO Elon Musk on Saturday predicted that former President Donald Trump will be re-elected in a "landslide" if he is indicted — or possibly arrested and potentially "handcuffed" — next week.
Question 1: Should Trump be arrested and charged?
Question 2: It has been suggested that a protest could be a part 2 of the Jan 6, 2021 insurrection. Do you agree yes or no and why?
Question 3: Is Elon Musk right in his observation?
1. Yes, yes.
2. No, only a few idiots are left that would do that. Trump called for protests and only about 3 people showed up.
3. Elon Musk is rarely right, especially about this.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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