Are the Hebrew scriptures (OT) compatible with the Greek scriptures (NT)?

[Scholar]

Another way to ask this question is, are practicing Jews justified in rejecting the Greek scriptures as being incompatible with the Hebrew scriptures? Or are the believers in the divine origin of the Greek scriptures (Christians), justified in saying that the two testaments are a consistent, coherent message from God?

Items to consider: The Greek scriptures are interpreted as describing God as a Trinity, whereas the Hebrew scriptures make it very clear that God is One without qualification.
God's purpose in the Hebrew scriptures is mainly to have His chosen people worship Him, whereas in the Greek scriptures God's purpose is to save every individual in the world, especially for the afterlife.
No consideration of rewards or punishments in the afterlife in the Hebrew scriptures. The afterlife and the dead are inconsequential in the Hebrew scriptures.
In the Hebrew scriptures, the Jews are to obey the Laws forever. In the Greek scriptures salvation is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ for everyone. The Law has always been impossible to fulfill and was a lesson in futility.
God can forgive anyone in the Hebrew scriptures. God can only forgive those that accept Christ as their Savior in the Greek scriptures.
In the Hebrew scriptures, the Messiah is to appear once and be triumphant. In the Greek scriptures the Messiah must appear twice, and as it turns out, these appearances are separated by thousands of years.
What do the Hebrew scriptures say about the practice of human sacrifice?
Does the description of the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53 refer to the Messiah?

[Eloi]

Both parts of the Scriptures are coherent, since the Christ was the Messiah predicted to Moses, and first followers of Christ were Jews.

The promises to the Christians came from the same God of the Jews, and Jesus was/is His Son.

[Scholar]

Eloi, You make it sound so simple! But have you considered why practicing Jews, for 2000 years, have rejected the Greek scriptures as being from the God of Israel? They're certainly familiar with the Greek scriptures and the Christian religion by now! Why have they rejected Christianity and continue with their religious tradition as though Christ never appeared?

[Eloi]

Eloi, You make it sound so simple! But have you considered why practicing Jews, for 2000 years, have rejected the Greek scriptures as being from the God of Israel? They're certainly familiar with the Greek scriptures and the Christian religion by now! Why have they rejected Christianity and continue with their religious tradition as though Christ never appeared?

Because of the same reason Catholic Church is trinitarian.

[1213]

Another way to ask this question is, are practicing Jews justified in rejecting the Greek scriptures as being incompatible with the Hebrew scriptures? Or are the believers in the divine origin of the Greek scriptures (Christians), justified in saying that the two testaments are a consistent, coherent message from God?

I think the scriptures are compatible and there is no problem between them. The problem is in how some people interpret the scriptures by their own desires.

[brunumb]

Another way to ask this question is, are practicing Jews justified in rejecting the Greek scriptures as being incompatible with the Hebrew scriptures? Or are the believers in the divine origin of the Greek scriptures (Christians), justified in saying that the two testaments are a consistent, coherent message from God?

I think the scriptures are compatible and there is no problem between them. The problem is in how some people interpret the scriptures by their own desires.

But of course that problem couldn't possibly apply to you.

[TRANSPONDER]

Well, scholar, perhaps you could give your views on a tangentally relevant aspect which is that some of the NT quotes do not appear compatible with the OT but rather appear to be based on the Greek Septuagint translation. A particular example being the quote about Babes and sucklings Jesus makes in the Temple (which is only found in Matthew, by the way) and which does not match the OT but does match the Septuagint. Perhaps you could comment.

Matthew 21.15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,
16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise? (Kjv)

Psalm 8 O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Psalm 8.1 [For the end, concerning the wine-presses, a Psalm of David.] 2 O Lord, our Lord, how wonderful is thy name in all the earth! for thy magnificence is exalted above the heavens. 3 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise, because of thine enemies; (Septuagint).

The implication is obvious - Matthew, supposedly the most Jewish of the writers (and follower of Jesus) wrote Jesus saying something not in the Jewish scripture but in the Greek version.

[Scholar]

1213, As you say, I suppose everyone interprets scripture according to their own desires. After all, the Jews have a strong tradition going back thousands of years, and we can be confident that many, if not all of them are very satisfied with their traditions, songs, gatherings, rituals, being the chosen people of God, etc. They have withstood attempts at conversion for thousands of years from many other cultures, and have a history of withstanding severe persecution. They are stubborn that way.

The question for us is, are there solid reasons for the Jews to reject Christianity based on their own scriptures? One of the most basic reasons that the Jews reject Christianity is that most Christians interpret their own scripture as saying that it is no longer necessary to observe or obey the Mosaic Laws. What is necessary is faith, not deeds, and to accept the blanket forgiveness of all sins offered by God through Jesus’ sacrifice. But the admonition for the Jews to always maintain the observance of those laws is repeated again and again in the Hebrew scriptures. For example: Psalms 105: 8-10 “He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.” Not only is the admonition repeated for the whole of the laws, it is repeated for many important individual laws. For example, Exodus 31: 16 “Therefore the Israelites shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant. 17It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel…”

An important commandment is for Yom Kippur, or the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 16:29 “This shall be a statute to you forever: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall deny yourselves, and shall do no work, neither the citizen nor the alien who resides among you. 30For on this day atonement shall be made for you, to cleanse you; from all your sins you shall be clean before the Lord. 31It is a sabbath of complete rest to you, and you shall deny yourselves; it is a statute forever.” This happens once a year, all the sins of the previous year are wiped “clean”, without the necessity of a human/God sacrifice as required by Christianity. And “it is a statute forever.”

Now I could go on and on reciting the many unambiguous verses stating that the Jews are to keep the Laws forever. I’ll just add that this admonition carries on into the future through prophecy. In Ezekiel we read how the Temple will be restored, Yahweh (the Lord, or God of Israel), will come and rest his feet there, and all the Mosaic Laws including the rites and animal sacrifices will be carried out there forever. No mention of a human/God sacrifice making all that unnecessary.

What did the God of Israel think of human sacrifice? Look at Jeremiah 6: 30 “For the people of Judah have done evil in my sight, says the Lord; they have set their abominations in the house that is called by my name, defiling it. 31And they go on building the high place of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire—which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.” The God of the Hebrew scriptures wouldn’t even think of human sacrifice! Incidentally, the Valley of Hinnom, is referred to as “Gehenna” in the Greek scriptures, and translated as “hell” for English New Testaments.

The central affirmation of Judaism is opening of the Shema Yisrael prayer, Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.” The Shema is traditionally recited twice a day, as part of the morning and evening services. It serves as the climax of the liturgy on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. Jews often recite the prayer as their dying words, including Jewish martyrs who, throughout the ages, made it their final profession of faith before being put to death. Professor of classical rabbinic literature Reuven Kimelman said the Shema summons Jews to feel "an all-consuming love of God."

For Jews then, the idea of a three-in-one God is in violation of the very heart of Judaism and God’s unambiguous Word. Well, I could go on and on with this and include more incompatibilities but my conclusion is clear without going further. Christianity is in opposition to the very heart of the Hebrew scriptures.

To respond to TRANSPONDER, I’m not familiar with those distinctions, but if true, your stated implication sounds right. I do know that the Gospel of Matthew is not likely to have been written by the disciple Matthew. There are no titles to the original Greek Gospels, like we see in our English Bibles: “The Gospel according to Matthew.” The attribution of the authors of the Gospels took place in the 2nd century, based on no evidence at all. Matthew borrows from the earlier Gospel of Mark for two-thirds of his stories, which would have been unnecessary because Matthew was an eyewitness. But the author never identifies himself as Matthew. Also he would have referred to himself in the first person instead of talking about himself as though he were somebody else. Even Matthew’s call to discipleship is borrowed word for word from Mark.

[1213]

... are there solid reasons for the Jews to reject Christianity based on their own scriptures? One of the most basic reasons that the Jews reject Christianity is that most Christians interpret their own scripture as saying that it is no longer necessary to observe or obey the Mosaic Laws. What is necessary is faith, not deeds, and to accept the blanket forgiveness of all sins offered by God through Jesus’ sacrifice...

I think it is very unfortunate that people have been so badly misled. New Testament does not revoke the law.

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully,
1 Tim. 1:8

Jesus, nor Paul are against the law. They only set it in right context. The idea is that people should be righteous. And when person is righteous, he voluntarily wants to be loyal (faithful) to God and then he wants to live according to God rules freely.

...
What did the God of Israel think of human sacrifice? Look at Jeremiah 6: 30 “For the people of Judah have done evil in my sight, says the Lord; they have set their abominations in the house that is called by my name, defiling it. 31And they go on building the high place of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire—which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.” The God of the Hebrew scriptures wouldn’t even think of human sacrifice! Incidentally, the Valley of Hinnom, is referred to as “Gehenna” in the Greek scriptures, and translated as “hell” for English New Testaments.

I think it is wrong to say Jesus is a human sacrifice, because no one sacrificed him actually and no one demanded such sacrifice. Jesus was killed and he got killed, because he came to forgive sins, he can be seen as a sacrifice. But, that doesn't make him an actual sacrifice.

...
For Jews then, the idea of a three-in-one God is in violation of the very heart of Judaism and God’s unambiguous Word. Well, I could go on and on with this and include more incompatibilities but my conclusion is clear without going further. Christianity is in opposition to the very heart of the Hebrew scriptures.

Bible doesn't speak about a three-in-one God, that is why I think "Christians" should not teach about such. Bible tells that there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus.

Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
Mark 12:29-30

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak."
John 12:49-50

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

I think Jews do right, when they reject bad teachings of Christians, but I hope they would notice, the bad teachings are not from Jesus or the Bible.

[TRANSPONDER]

1213, As you say, I suppose everyone interprets scripture according to their own desires. After all, the Jews have a strong tradition going back thousands of years, and we can be confident that many, if not all of them are very satisfied with their traditions, songs, gatherings, rituals, being the chosen people of God, etc. They have withstood attempts at conversion for thousands of years from many other cultures, and have a history of withstanding severe persecution. They are stubborn that way.

The question for us is, are there solid reasons for the Jews to reject Christianity based on their own scriptures? One of the most basic reasons that the Jews reject Christianity is that most Christians interpret their own scripture as saying that it is no longer necessary to observe or obey the Mosaic Laws. What is necessary is faith, not deeds, and to accept the blanket forgiveness of all sins offered by God through Jesus’ sacrifice. But the admonition for the Jews to always maintain the observance of those laws is repeated again and again in the Hebrew scriptures. For example: Psalms 105: 8-10 “He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.” Not only is the admonition repeated for the whole of the laws, it is repeated for many important individual laws. For example, Exodus 31: 16 “Therefore the Israelites shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant. 17It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel…”

An important commandment is for Yom Kippur, or the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 16:29 “This shall be a statute to you forever: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall deny yourselves, and shall do no work, neither the citizen nor the alien who resides among you. 30For on this day atonement shall be made for you, to cleanse you; from all your sins you shall be clean before the Lord. 31It is a sabbath of complete rest to you, and you shall deny yourselves; it is a statute forever.” This happens once a year, all the sins of the previous year are wiped “clean”, without the necessity of a human/God sacrifice as required by Christianity. And “it is a statute forever.”

Now I could go on and on reciting the many unambiguous verses stating that the Jews are to keep the Laws forever. I’ll just add that this admonition carries on into the future through prophecy. In Ezekiel we read how the Temple will be restored, Yahweh (the Lord, or God of Israel), will come and rest his feet there, and all the Mosaic Laws including the rites and animal sacrifices will be carried out there forever. No mention of a human/God sacrifice making all that unnecessary.

What did the God of Israel think of human sacrifice? Look at Jeremiah 6: 30 “For the people of Judah have done evil in my sight, says the Lord; they have set their abominations in the house that is called by my name, defiling it. 31And they go on building the high place of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire—which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.” The God of the Hebrew scriptures wouldn’t even think of human sacrifice! Incidentally, the Valley of Hinnom, is referred to as “Gehenna” in the Greek scriptures, and translated as “hell” for English New Testaments.

The central affirmation of Judaism is opening of the Shema Yisrael prayer, Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.” The Shema is traditionally recited twice a day, as part of the morning and evening services. It serves as the climax of the liturgy on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. Jews often recite the prayer as their dying words, including Jewish martyrs who, throughout the ages, made it their final profession of faith before being put to death. Professor of classical rabbinic literature Reuven Kimelman said the Shema summons Jews to feel "an all-consuming love of God."

For Jews then, the idea of a three-in-one God is in violation of the very heart of Judaism and God’s unambiguous Word. Well, I could go on and on with this and include more incompatibilities but my conclusion is clear without going further. Christianity is in opposition to the very heart of the Hebrew scriptures.

To respond to TRANSPONDER, I’m not familiar with those distinctions, but if true, your stated implication sounds right. I do know that the Gospel of Matthew is not likely to have been written by the disciple Matthew. There are no titles to the original Greek Gospels, like we see in our English Bibles: “The Gospel according to Matthew.” The attribution of the authors of the Gospels took place in the 2nd century, based on no evidence at all. Matthew borrows from the earlier Gospel of Mark for two-thirds of his stories, which would have been unnecessary because Matthew was an eyewitness. But the author never identifies himself as Matthew. Also he would have referred to himself in the first person instead of talking about himself as though he were somebody else. Even Matthew’s call to discipleship is borrowed word for word from Mark.

Thank you for your response, but the point is that Matthew cannot have been an eyewitness whoever he was. It is on all evidence and reason inconceivable that Jesus could have actually made a retort to the Sadducees that was not the actual Jewish text but a Greek mistranslation of it. With the understanding that only Matthew has this, it seems inescapable: Matthew made it up. This before we get onto comparing Hebrew with Greek.

The thing is, this is a discussion forum about religion, not so much for scholarly study of how old translators of hebrew into greek went about it.

In fact more pertinent are the easy assertions that Matthew uses Mark. in fact it is as easy to show that Mark adds to a synoptic gospel (now lost but recoverable) just as matthew does, with inventions as provavble as matthew inventing the 'Babes and sucklings'; remark.

You may be familiar with the 'weaving together' apologetic ploy or excuse for Bible contradictions. if something is missing from the other gospels, it isn't because Matthew or Luke invented something, Oh no - the other just all left it out for some inexplicable reason.

But the mistranslation from the Greek scuppers that apologetic doesn't it? In all credibility, Jesus could not have said that in a Greek wrong translation and thus is proof (if proof means anything at all that Matthew invented it.

And that rather brings down all of Matthew's other foul - ups doesn't it? The two donkeys, the virgin birth, the nativity nonsense, the resurrection account, the sermon chapters five to seven inclusive.....
and most of the rest of the book.