Is Christianity homophobic?

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Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #1

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Christians are often accused of being homophobic. So then I question why do people call themselves Christians in this day and age. I've searched the internet for a response. Of course, there are those Christians that try to make a case that homosexuality is not condemned by the Bible. But in this thread, I want to focus on those Christians that believe that being homosexual or engaging in same-sex behavior is wrong.

Here's one perspective I've found:
By Oxford Languages’ definition, homophobia can be as simple as a dislike for or as strong as a prejudice toward LGBT+ community members. While the word “phobia” implies a fear, homophobia has been used to describe everything from refusing to make a cake for a homosexual wedding to death penalties for homosexuals.

Christians are often accused of homophobia, often specifically because we stand for God’s holy design of sexual relations: one man and one woman united in marriage. It is never wrong for Christians to make a stand for biblical principle

However, true homophobia––prejudice against or hatred of homosexuals––is also sin. Prejudice is never biblical. We are never called to hatred but to love others as Christ loved us. Christians should not condone the homosexual lifestyle, but they should also not hate, degrade or condescend to those who identify as homosexual.
Source: https://www.collegianonline.com/2021/03 ... omophobic/

If I'm understanding correctly, it seems the author is trying to make a distinction between disagreeing with homosexuality and "prejudice and hatred of homosexuals". In another place, the author also refers to homophobia as a "fear".

For debate:
1. Is the author's distinction correct? Does 'homophobia' involve any type of belief or action (e.g. simply saying that it is wrong) that goes against homosexuality? Or does it just involve "hatred and prejudice"?

2. Is it even possible to believe that homosexuality is wrong but not to hate it or be prejudiced towards it?
Last edited by AgnosticBoy on Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #31

Post by otseng »

boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:36 amBy holding such views, you yourself are contributing to the oppression of a group of people, and as such cannot claim to be an ally in the fight against intolerance.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #32

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #23]

Just on the sport angle. Sport is meant to be another avenue for men to display prowess and attract females. That is the literal purpose.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #33

Post by boatsnguitars »

Wootah wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:48 am
Just on the sport angle. Sport is meant to be another avenue for men to display prowess and attract females. That is the literal purpose.
I'd like to think we have found other ways to attract mates besides bashing each other's face in, fast walking, or throwing darts.i disagree that this is the purpose of sport.
If so, why are 90% of MMA viewers men? Are they looking to see which guy they want to mate with?
It makes no sense, unless there are more gay men then 10% of the population...
Teddy Bruschi, NE Pats, said he just loved running full speed and knocking down a grown man. He didnt seem to suggest it was so he could find love.

Either way, if that's the purpose, as you say - literally - then all the more reason to let Trans people participate, since they can prove their prowess and find a mate.
After all, if that is literally the purpose of sports, and the losers of the 100 meter still find mates, then then women who come second to a Trans woman shouldn't worry. They'll still prove their worth to whoever cares about the sport.

No, it's related to physical prowess in an evolutionary sense, because evolution does that, but I don't think that's it's literal function.

But, I do agree it's wired into us to be interested in sport and competition by Evolution

I wonder what sport is for under Theism?
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #34

Post by brunumb »

Wootah wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:48 am [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #23]

Just on the sport angle. Sport is meant to be another avenue for men to display prowess and attract females. That is the literal purpose.
Only if you live in cloud cuckoo land.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #35

Post by boatsnguitars »

brunumb wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:07 am
Wootah wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:48 am [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #23]

Just on the sport angle. Sport is meant to be another avenue for men to display prowess and attract females. That is the literal purpose.
Only if you live in cloud cuckoo land.
Well, to be fair, it does seem a few guys and gals are giving this guy a good look over...
Image
It is pretty sexy.
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #36

Post by Wootah »

boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:48 am
Just on the sport angle. Sport is meant to be another avenue for men to display prowess and attract females. That is the literal purpose.
I'd like to think we have found other ways to attract mates besides bashing each other's face in, fast walking, or throwing darts.i disagree that this is the purpose of sport.
If so, why are 90% of MMA viewers men? Are they looking to see which guy they want to mate with?
It makes no sense, unless there are more gay men then 10% of the population...
Teddy Bruschi, NE Pats, said he just loved running full speed and knocking down a grown man. He didnt seem to suggest it was so he could find love.

Either way, if that's the purpose, as you say - literally - then all the more reason to let Trans people participate, since they can prove their prowess and find a mate.
After all, if that is literally the purpose of sports, and the losers of the 100 meter still find mates, then then women who come second to a Trans woman shouldn't worry. They'll still prove their worth to whoever cares about the sport.

No, it's related to physical prowess in an evolutionary sense, because evolution does that, but I don't think that's it's literal function.

But, I do agree it's wired into us to be interested in sport and competition by Evolution

I wonder what sport is for under Theism?
Yes, we have found other ways to attract women. Each one of them however ideally is a way for men to show women they are worth mating with.

Mostly men view men (and mostly women view women on facebook and instagram for probably the same but inverse reasons) to watch what high quality or status members of their own sex do to attract women.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 1201000101
Men prefer watching sports that involve physical confrontations and emphasize team play (Carrol, 2005; Sargent, Zillman, and Weaver, 1998). This observation is broadly consistent with the male spectator lek hypothesis of sport. For example, in a 2008 poll of nearly 12,000 respondents in the U.S. by ESPN Sports Poll 9 out of 10 sports listed as favorite spectator sports were team sports involving direct physical confrontations between players (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail ... /Issue-213). The only individual sport on the list, National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR), was ranked sixth. Interestingly, NASCAR races often involve dangerous direct confrontations between drivers.
I also think there is some sort of subversion going on where by watching my team win, I get benefits from that. I think the subconscious part of our brain thinks that the man supporting the team is also part of the team and the win is conferred to them and the woman more attracted to him. Probably winning is so important to survival that we can trick women into thinking we are winners by following a winning team. Probably the cycle of sports allow more opportunities than the battles every spring in the past?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 210547.htm

edit: I think when we watch a movie, it works because even though the conscious mind knows it is fake, the unconscious mind does not. Similarly, the woman knows her mate didn't play in the support consciously but unconsciously he did. Perhaps ....
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #37

Post by boatsnguitars »

Wootah wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:32 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:48 am
Just on the sport angle. Sport is meant to be another avenue for men to display prowess and attract females. That is the literal purpose.
I'd like to think we have found other ways to attract mates besides bashing each other's face in, fast walking, or throwing darts.i disagree that this is the purpose of sport.
If so, why are 90% of MMA viewers men? Are they looking to see which guy they want to mate with?
It makes no sense, unless there are more gay men then 10% of the population...
Teddy Bruschi, NE Pats, said he just loved running full speed and knocking down a grown man. He didnt seem to suggest it was so he could find love.

Either way, if that's the purpose, as you say - literally - then all the more reason to let Trans people participate, since they can prove their prowess and find a mate.
After all, if that is literally the purpose of sports, and the losers of the 100 meter still find mates, then then women who come second to a Trans woman shouldn't worry. They'll still prove their worth to whoever cares about the sport.

No, it's related to physical prowess in an evolutionary sense, because evolution does that, but I don't think that's it's literal function.

But, I do agree it's wired into us to be interested in sport and competition by Evolution

I wonder what sport is for under Theism?
Yes, we have found other ways to attract women. Each one of them however ideally is a way for men to show women they are worth mating with.

Mostly men view men (and mostly women view women on facebook and instagram for probably the same but inverse reasons) to watch what high quality or status members of their own sex do to attract women.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 1201000101
Men prefer watching sports that involve physical confrontations and emphasize team play (Carrol, 2005; Sargent, Zillman, and Weaver, 1998). This observation is broadly consistent with the male spectator lek hypothesis of sport. For example, in a 2008 poll of nearly 12,000 respondents in the U.S. by ESPN Sports Poll 9 out of 10 sports listed as favorite spectator sports were team sports involving direct physical confrontations between players (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail ... /Issue-213). The only individual sport on the list, National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR), was ranked sixth. Interestingly, NASCAR races often involve dangerous direct confrontations between drivers.
I also think there is some sort of subversion going on where by watching my team win, I get benefits from that. I think the subconscious part of our brain thinks that the man supporting the team is also part of the team and the win is conferred to them and the woman more attracted to him. Probably winning is so important to survival that we can trick women into thinking we are winners by following a winning team. Probably the cycle of sports allow more opportunities than the battles every spring in the past?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 210547.htm

edit: I think when we watch a movie, it works because even though the conscious mind knows it is fake, the unconscious mind does not. Similarly, the woman knows her mate didn't play in the support consciously but unconsciously he did. Perhaps ....
I'm not sure what your point is, other than to discuss Evolution's impact in how we have developed as a species. There are clear evolutionary benefits, for example, to wear ridiculous costumes at a sporting event because it shows you are part of an 'approved clan' (the In Group), and have the disposable income or social cache to spend on looking silly. Humor is also attractive.

However, what does this have to do with Trans people? Trans people have every right to display their value to a potential mate, and sports aren't required for Cis people to find mates.

The point I have made is not that sports shouldn't exist, but that - since we, society, makes the rules - we can change the rules to all sports to allow Trans people to compete. The rules of Sports, Games, etc. are all arbitrary.

There is nothing lost to allow Trans people to compete in sports, unless one establishes as fact that we MUST enforce a rule that "Penises must run against Penises, Wombs must run against Wombs". Where is this rule written, except in the rule books men have written?

Again, I am sympathetic to the fact that if we always, only, had mixed sports - only the fastest & strongest get to compete - that women would find themselves almost entirely out of professional sports. That's what makes it difficult in the short term. But this is not Trans people''s fault. It is the society they are growing up in, and society will change eventually - as it always does.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #38

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #37]

It was a digression but people asked.

I am anti segregation in all sport as well. Sport is for men. As I explained.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #39

Post by boatsnguitars »

Wootah wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:02 am [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #37]

It was a digression but people asked.

I am anti segregation in all sport as well. Sport is for men. As I explained.
That wasn't my point. I'd be in direct opposition to that and I've never heard anyone but incels claim that sports are only for men.
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A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: Is Christianity homophobic?

Post #40

Post by otseng »

brunumb wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:07 am Only if you live in cloud cuckoo land.
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