Looking for Healing Miracles by the Biblical God

[Compassionist]

I have been looking for healing miracles by the Biblical God for many years. I found these accounts online:

1. https://www.globalmri.org/wp-content/up ... 09_SMJ.pdf
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
3. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
4.

Are these apparent miracles really miracles? How can we know for sure? If they are really miracles, do they prove that the Bible is true and that the Biblical God is real and good?

[Miles]

I have been looking for healing miracles by the Biblical God for many years. I found these accounts online:

1. https://www.globalmri.org/wp-content/up ... 09_SMJ.pdf
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
3. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
4.

Are these apparent miracles really miracles?

Taking "miracle" to mean:

"a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."

Yes they could be IF a divine agency can be shown to exist, and it can be proven the event was the work of such an agency. Short of that, No.

How can we know for sure?

See preceding comment.

If they are really miracles, do they prove that the Bible is true and that the Biblical God is real and good?

No. Mere say-so is not enough. Besides, why would the divine agency necessarily have to be the Biblical god? Perhaps the guy behind the curtain is Baldr the Norse god of light and radiance, peace and forgiveness. Or maybe Atingkok, the universal god father and creator of the entire world of the Meitei religion.

Got a looooong way to go before any event can be proven to be the work of some divine agency.

.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

Yes, you defined miracle correctly.

Thank you for answering my questions. Did you read the three papers and watch the video in my previous post? The apparent miracles occurred after prayers to the Biblical God. That's why I brought up the Biblical God instead of all the other gods.

[TRANSPONDER]

Miracle claims have always been tricky. In my job we had a similar (Legal) problem and i had to consider a response to what was later dubbed the 'are you calling me a liar' gambit by clients' representatives making all sorts of claims which we were expected to accept without evidence.

I recognised the same gambit in Christian apologetics and they came in three main sizes:

(1) anecdotal claims without any actual evidence. This included personal experiences, or so they said.

(2) actual verified occurrences which could not be explained.

(3) everyday coincidences or even normal stuff claimed as miracles.

The latter "God helped me find my car keys" is a joke and needn't concern us. I sometimes relate a miracle that happened to me, or at least a very fortunate chain of events. But I was an atheist and was not praying and I will leave a believer to struggle with an apologetic of 'God does miracles even for atheists that don't pray'. With of course the unexplained event like a person who fell from fifty thousand feet without a parachute and survived. How, I have no idea, how, but a miracle? Who knows. As indeed who knows how many 'miracles' happen for Muslims and Hindus? We never hear about them, but it doesn't mean they don't happen.

The first...I had (on a previous board) a poster of 'miracles' (as well as bad behaviour by atheists caught on film (1) and one was a dubious one Filmed in India with a healer saying 'This man is lame (or something) I call on Jesus to heal him. Are you healed?" (Indian man) "Yes." Sorry, I have my doubts (the "Are you calling me a liar" ploy was then played). We have probably also heard the: "My mother was dyin' o' cancer see, and we all prayed"..."And the doctors had no explanation" apologetic. We cannot accept these. Nor the personal experiences which ranged from claims of demons whizzing around the kitchen to "I prayed for a job and the 'phone rang...' which I thought I'd heard a couple of times before, anyway. And calling nobody a liar, but the response is 'I have no access to the event and so cannot evaluate it'. Which is how we dealt with the 'are you calling me a liar gambit' and the rational response squad found the had to deal with these claims in the same way.

As the 'Open Mind' vid on critical thinking said (in so many words...vid below. Mustwatch) "anyone hearing about the ghost story of the moving lampshade would know nothing about the heater that was moving the air". That is, even someone recounting an actual event may not know or may misremember facts that affect the 'miracle'.

One Miracle claim' I had to field on one of my previous boards was two priests who survived an atomic blast. Checking into the event suggested that they were well protected and some way away. God or not, Gamma rays are no respecter of even ecclesiastical persons, and no mention was made even of testing for radiation. So Facts can be Interpreted to look more miraculous than they are.

So, bottom line, posting anecdotes, reports and videos about convenient miracles or unexplained occurrences have to be dismissed (sorry) without even watching, because Miracle claims cannot be accepted (like many other theist claims) on face value.

(1) one was exposed as the 'atheist' looked to clock that the camera was ready and filming before going into his torrent of violent 'atheist' abuse of an innocent and persecuted Christian victim.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #4]

Thank you very much for your reply and the video. I was brainwashed with religion since I was in the womb so I let in a lot of rubbish without demanding evidence. I think the same is true of a lot of religious people.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #4]

Thank you very much for your reply and the video. I was brainwashed with religion since I was in the womb so I let in a lot of rubbish without demanding evidence. I think the same is true of a lot of religious people.

Thank you. I did say that these miracle claims are tough, sometimes. I know that it does leave us helpless and with no explanation of some things, even when they are well verified. It rather leaves us with a 'don't know...yet'. I know the believers sneer at that (1) but the fact is that a number of the old Unexplained questions (as gaps for God) have been answered and there was never a god there, never mind which one.

I would say that given cultural brainwashing into religion I am impressed and respectful about those who reason their way out. I sometimes wonder whether I'd be able to.

P.s It may not be relevant but I did post a clip (I think on the previous forum) of F1 driver Roman Grosjean's crash and fireball. Also his interview afterwards where he said about thinking of his family and how to get himself loose and not a thought about praying to God, but he got out with a few minor burns.

(1) there was a Dillahunty debate where the theist absolutely did sneer at it.