How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

[otseng]

From the On the Bible being inerrant thread:

How can you trust something that's written about god that contradictory, contains errors and just plain wrong at times? Is there a logical way to do so, or do you just want it to be god's word so much that you overlook these things like happens so often through the history of christianity?

The Bible can still be God's word, inspired, authoritative, and trustworthy without the need to believe in inerrancy.

For debate:
How can the Bible be considered authoritative and inspired without the need to believe in the doctrine of inerrancy?

While debating, do not simply state verses to say the Bible is inspired or trustworthy.

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Thread Milestones

• Case study of Hezekiah
• Start discussing global flood / Flood Model summary
• Recap arguments of authority of the Bible
• Start discussing Tower of Babel / Tower of Babel summary
• Start discussing archaeology / Philosophy of science / Origin of alphabet / End of discussion on archaeology
• Start discussing cosmology / Concluding cosmology
• Start discussing Shroud of Turin / Summary top TS imaging theories / Created DefendingChristianity.com and TS subforums / Shroud of Turin summary
• Start discussing Bible and resurrection
• Start discussing the Messiahship of Jesus / Messiahship of Jesus wrap up
• Start discussing Old Testament ethics
• Summary argument of atheism and morality / God basis for objective morality
• Start discussing genocide / Genocide summary argument
• Start discussing slavery / Slavery summary argument
• Start discussing homosexuality / Homosexuality summary argument
• Old Testament ethics summary argument
• Start discussing philosophy / Summary argument on philosophy
• Start discussing creation of universe / Summary argument universe was created

[Miles]

[Replying to otseng in post #2299

The man on the shroud has no broken bones.

Of course not. The Christian Bible says that Jesus had no broken bones, so a Christian artist wouldn't depict him with broken bones.

As noted in John 19:33
.... "But when the soldiers came close to Jesus, they saw that he was already dead. So they did not break his legs."

.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to otseng in post #2299

The man on the shroud has no broken bones.

Of course not. The Christian Bible says that Jesus had no broken bones, so a Christian artist wouldn't depict him with broken bones.

As noted in John 19:33
.... "But when the soldiers came close to Jesus, they saw that he was already dead. So they did not break his legs."

.

These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” (John 19:36)

This supposedly happened to keep Jesus fit as an atoning sacrifice in the Jewish system, since no bones of the sacrifice could be broken. But other sacrificial criteria are ignored: he was supposed to be a human sacrifice [which was prohibited], he wasn't sacrificed in the temple, his blood wasn't poured over the altar....etc.

It doesn't work to count a single hit and ignore numerous misses.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
It doesn't work to count a single hit and ignore numerous misses.

Such is the blessing of religious belief.

[Miles]

[Replying to otseng in post #2299

The man on the shroud has no broken bones.

Of course not. The Christian Bible says that Jesus had no broken bones, so a Christian artist wouldn't depict him with broken bones.

As noted in John 19:33
.... "But when the soldiers came close to Jesus, they saw that he was already dead. So they did not break his legs."

.

These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” (John 19:36)

This supposedly happened to keep Jesus fit as an atoning sacrifice in the Jewish system, since no bones of the sacrifice could be broken. But other sacrificial criteria are ignored: he was supposed to be a human sacrifice [which was prohibited], he wasn't sacrificed in the temple, his blood wasn't poured over the altar....etc.

It doesn't work to count a single hit and ignore numerous misses.

Interestingly enough, a footnote to John 19:36 references as its basis Psalm 34:20 where one can read:

Psalm34:20
GNT
the Lord preserves them completely; not one of their bones is broken..

ICB
He will protect their very bones. Not one of them will be broken.

ERV
He will protect them completely. Not one of their bones will be broken.

NCV
He will protect their very bones; not one of them will be broken.

Etc.

Note that the "them" and "their" references to people, are plural. Of course other Bibles use "his" instead of "them" or "their," but strangely enough, when consulting Strong's Concordance for "his" in the verse, one is pointed to the phrase "his bones" (Strong's h6106), which makes absolutely no mention or reference to the pronoun "his," at all, only "bone." Evidently the compilers of the Bible saw fit to plug "his," "them" or "their" into the mix as they saw fit, with no actual Hebrew pronoun to draw from. (Strong's does not use any Bible wherein "them" or "their" are employed.)

"All Scripture is given by God" indeed.

.

[otseng]

It doesn't work to count a single hit and ignore numerous misses.

I know I have not discussed the provenance of the shroud or how the image was formed yet. What other issues are you referring to?

[otseng]

"All Scripture is given by God" indeed.

Another example of the misunderstanding of inerrancy. And further evidence the concept of inerrancy should be dropped.

[otseng]

In addition to scourging, image processing of the shroud also reveal 2 additional types of whip marks.

New image processing of the TS confirms the presence
of 3 different kinds of scourge marks, related to the use of
at least 2 different kinds of whips on the TS and much
more faint; they look like a fan composed by 3 - 4 thin
curved stripes.
Type 1 marks are characterized by two or three spheres
(about 0.8 mm in diameter) connected by small bars, and
are compatible with the signs left by a Roman Flagrum.
Type 2 marks show relatively large and striate bands of
variable length, similar to scratches and are compatible
with flexible rods, like the famous “Virgae” used both as
torture instrument and as power symbol by the lictors.
Type 3 marks are more rare (they occur less than 15
times).

http://www.acheiropoietos.info/proceedi ... iniWeb.pdf










The type 1 and type 2 marks are found together and the type 3 marks are only on the legs. So, most likely the type 1 and 2 marks occurred during the flagellation of Christ and the type 3 marks while Christ carried the cross.

Type1 marks randomly overlaps Type2, leading to the
conclusion that the TS Man was whipped with the Roman
Flagrum, after being beaten with flexible rods.
In the hypothesis that the TS Man is Jesus of Nazareth
dressed with a tunic which protected him from the next
lashes, and knowing that Type 3 marks can be only found
on the TS legs (probably not covered by the tunic), we can
suppose that Type 3 marks are the result of the whipping
of the TS Man during his uphill to the Calvary.

http://www.acheiropoietos.info/proceedi ... iniWeb.pdf

[otseng]

According to tests done by Baima Bollone, the blood on the shroud is of type AB.

The human blood is of AB group.

https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/doclist.pdf

For the reasons indicated, we are therefore in a position to conclude that the traces of
Shroud blood which we examined belong to the AB group.

https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/ssi06part3.pdf

AB blood type is rare, with only around 5% of the population having this type. It is a universal plasma donor, so anyone can receive blood plasma from an AB donor.

The AB-negative blood type is the rarest one in the United States. Only 1%, or 1 in every 100, Americans have this blood type. AB-positive is also one of the rarer blood types, coursing through the veins of only 4% of the U.S. blood donor population, or 1 in every 25 people.

Blood type AB is spread pretty evenly among all races and ethnicities.

People with AB blood types are universal plasma donors, meaning any blood type can receive their plasma.

https://vitalant.org/different-blood-ty ... od-type-ab

Blood Type AB is found in less than five percent of the population.

https://www.4yourtype.com/all-about-blood-type-ab/

The universal plasma donor has Type AB blood.

https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-bl ... types.html

[Miles]

"All Scripture is given by God" indeed.

Another example of the misunderstanding of inerrancy. And further evidence the concept of inerrancy should be dropped.

Then what is one to do with:

Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar."

Leave this particular cherry on the tree?

.

[otseng]

Then what is one to do with:
Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Here's other translations:

(KJV)
Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

(Logos)
For all the words of God are tried in the fire, and He defends those that reverence Him.

(NASB)
Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

(YLT)
Every saying of God is tried, A shield He is to those trusting in Him.

(NET)
Every word of God is purified; he is like a shield for those who take refuge in him.

The transliteral version would be:
Every word of God is ṣārap̄

ṣārap̄ means "to smelt, refine, test"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon ... v/wlc/0-1/