"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

Post #1

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Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by JoeyKnothead »

1213 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:12 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:20 pm ...
So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.
...
I don't think that is true, for example because it is said also:

“If a man strikes his servant’s eye, or his maid’s eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. If he strikes out his man-servant’s tooth, or his maid-servant’s tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.
Ex. 21:26-27
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #12

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:12 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:20 pm ...
So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.[/color]
...
I don't think that is true, for example because it is said also:

“If a man strikes his servant’s eye, or his maid’s eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. If he strikes out his man-servant’s tooth, or his maid-servant’s tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.
Ex. 21:26-27
Thank you for at least speaking up in defence of Biblical passages on slavery.

The text is a bit ambiguous in full as it isn't clear whether this applies only to Hebrew slaves or to all. Since the rules seem to apply to how one deals with Hebrew women, daughters or betrothed, if slaves or not, I suspect we have rules about how the Law applies in the case that they are Hebrew slaves. For Foreign slaves, there may not be the same rules. But it is debatable. What is not is that even if you treated your foreign slaves kindly and decently they were your property for life and that is chattel slavery. It is either ok or it is not according to supposedly God -given morality. Which is it?

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #13

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:12 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:20 pm ...
So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.[/color]
...
I don't think that is true, for example because it is said also:

“If a man strikes his servant’s eye, or his maid’s eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. If he strikes out his man-servant’s tooth, or his maid-servant’s tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.
Ex. 21:26-27
I'm going to answer to your response. But then I would hope you do me the same courtesy and answer mine.

Let's evaluate here....

1) Why do you think chattel slaves were beaten from the back side? Maybe, in part, because of the Verse(s) you cited?

2) Can eyes and teeth be knocked out, if you are whipped from the backside? No.

3) Since the chattel slave is there to do their cheap/free labor, is a blind chattel slave useful? No.

4) As Transponder pointed out, how do you know this Verse was speaking about all slaves, and not just the Hebrews males or other groups? Meaning, both Exodus 21 and Leviticus 25 speaks about Hebrew men, women, slave offspring, etc... These two chapters make special considerations, depending on situation. So let's be quite generous, and grant you your Verse(s) entirely, just for funsies. Okay. You still need to answer questions 1) and 2) and 3), just for starters.

****************************

Now, if you would not mind, please answer my original post questions:

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #14

Post by boatsnguitars »

1213 wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:12 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:20 pm ...
So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.[/color]
...
I don't think that is true, for example because it is said also:

“If a man strikes his servant’s eye, or his maid’s eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. If he strikes out his man-servant’s tooth, or his maid-servant’s tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.
Ex. 21:26-27
Sure, I suppose it's too much for God to say, "Hey, don't beat slaves - in fact, let them go!" BTW, it doesn't say anything about legs, arms, ears, fingers, toes, hands, feet, kidneys, livers - not to mention the psychological damage to the person and their children.

1213, I hope you will some day have the freedom to look at this with an open heart and realize ancient people were horrible, and the OT codified their horribleness. Once you see there is no God, just horrible people and, yes, some good people, you will be free.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by 1213 »

boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:29 pm ...and realize ancient people were horrible, ...
I think ancient people were horrible, but I think modern people are even worse.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #16

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pm ...
3) Since the chattel slave is there to do their cheap/free labor, is a blind chattel slave useful? No.
One could say the same about otherwise beaten slave. And generally, if you want good workforce, you treat them well.
POI wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pm By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?
By what I know, Bible doesn't have the word "chattel slavery".
POI wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pmAgain, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?[/color]
I don't think Bible can be used in support of breeding chattel slaves.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #17

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:46 am ...
The text is a bit ambiguous in full as it isn't clear whether this applies only to Hebrew slaves or to all. Since the rules seem to apply to how one deals with Hebrew women, daughters or betrothed, if slaves or not, I suspect we have rules about how the Law applies in the case that they are Hebrew slaves. For Foreign slaves, there may not be the same rules. But it is debatable. What is not is that even if you treated your foreign slaves kindly and decently they were your property for life and that is chattel slavery. It is either ok or it is not according to supposedly God -given morality. Which is it?
If the text doesn't say it is only about Hebrew slaves, then it is about all slaves. I don't think there is anything ambiguous in that.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by JoeyKnothead »

1213 wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:19 am If the text doesn't say it is only about Hebrew slaves, then it is about all slaves. I don't think there is anything ambiguous in that.
Let's say I'm in the market for slaves. Good slaves, not them lazy white slaves. Quality slaves.

Is there some number of slaves I could have, before God gets upset?

What if I dressed my slaves in a poly/cotton blend? Which of us is in trouble?

What if I only allowed them to eat shellfish? Which of us hasta shovel coal in Hell?

Or worse, what if I buy me a bunch of slaves, only to find out they're a bunch of homosexuals? Do I get a rebate for these defective slaves? Must I stone them, or can I hire new slaves to kill the gay slaves I couldn't get a rebate on?

What if one of the slaves is a woman, and she has her the unmitigated gall to speak in church? Is that a stoning, or do I cut her tongue out and let her go free?

Does God answer the prayers of slaves? What if a slave prayed to be free - but ya know, without all that eye damaging and the ear pulling off and stuff?

What if I took the pastor to be a slave? Is there anything there that's gonna get me in trouble?

How about, now I'm just asking, but how about selling my family off as slaves? Would that get God upset?

If I'm reading all this right, and I think I am, it's okay for folks to own slaves, but all Hell's gonna break loose if a woman dares to expose a boobie.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:18 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:29 pm ...and realize ancient people were horrible, ...
I think ancient people were horrible, but I think modern people are even worse.
Ancient people had slavery.They thought it was ok, even though they knew it wasn't.Now we know better, even though as you say some people are horrible. But I don't think we are even worse.We are actually better.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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1213 wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:19 am
POI wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pm ...
3) Since the chattel slave is there to do their cheap/free labor, is a blind chattel slave useful? No.
One could say the same about otherwise beaten slave. And generally, if you want good workforce, you treat them well.
"One could say" all sorts of things to avoid the obvious, which is what you are trying to do. Bottom line is that, a slave master can beat their slaves, with impunity, provided they do not knock out eyes/teeth. This instruction apparently comes from the God you worship. Do you agree with God's instruction here?
1213 wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:19 am
POI wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pm By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?
By what I know, Bible doesn't have the word "chattel slavery".
The term 'chattel slave" has been defined in the original post, which is also described in Leviticus 25:44-46. This means, according to the God you worship, you can keep slaves for life, beat them for life, and are your property. Do you agree with God's instruction here too?
1213 wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:19 am
POI wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pmAgain, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?[/color]
I don't think Bible can be used in support of breeding chattel slaves.
Yes you can...

Exodus 21:

4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

Do you agree with the instructions, in which the God you worship, has given here?
Last edited by POI on Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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