JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

It's quite obvious that Jesus is not God, but is the Son of God. He said so himself more than once. "I said, 'I am God's Son.'" (John 10:36)

Asking a trinitarian to believe Jesus doesn't work. They outright refuse. A man with dogma is above Jesus to them. Yet they fool themselves into thinking they are following Jesus. Satan does it like this-2Cor 11:12-15--their teachers.

You mean like believing men who say only a few people can eat and drink the flesh and blood of Christ, as opposed to believing Christ who said that anyone may do so and that unless one does so one has no life in them?

Peace again to you.

Jesus didn't say that anyone could partake of the bread and wine. He was speaking to his co-rulers that had been chosen to rule in heaven with him. The people who would not be ruling with him would not take the bread and wine. He made a covenant only with his co-rulers.

[tam]

Peace to you both,

Peace to you,

It's quite obvious that Jesus is not God, but is the Son of God. He said so himself more than once. "I said, 'I am God's Son.'" (John 10:36)

Asking a trinitarian to believe Jesus doesn't work. They outright refuse. A man with dogma is above Jesus to them. Yet they fool themselves into thinking they are following Jesus. Satan does it like this-2Cor 11:12-15--their teachers.

You mean like believing men who say only a few people can eat and drink the flesh and blood of Christ, as opposed to believing Christ who said that anyone may do so and that unless one does so one has no life in them?

Peace again to you.

Jesus didn't say that anyone could partake of the bread and wine.

I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which ANYONE may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.


- John 6



Anyone.



Peace again to you both.

[boatsnguitars]

Fascinating conversation. Question: Is it possible the books of the Bible are unclear, since it was multiple people writing them from different religious perspectives, and addressing different doctrine, and over hundreds of years, so it's obvious they'd seem so confusing and contradictory?

Or, is it possible that Satan wrote them, since he's the author of confusion?

[onewithhim]

Peace to you both,

Peace to you,

It's quite obvious that Jesus is not God, but is the Son of God. He said so himself more than once. "I said, 'I am God's Son.'" (John 10:36)

Asking a trinitarian to believe Jesus doesn't work. They outright refuse. A man with dogma is above Jesus to them. Yet they fool themselves into thinking they are following Jesus. Satan does it like this-2Cor 11:12-15--their teachers.

You mean like believing men who say only a few people can eat and drink the flesh and blood of Christ, as opposed to believing Christ who said that anyone may do so and that unless one does so one has no life in them?

Peace again to you.

Jesus didn't say that anyone could partake of the bread and wine.

I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which ANYONE may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.


- John 6



Anyone.



Peace again to you both.

No. He didn't make a covenant with any of his followers until the night before his death. That covenant was for a Kingdom...in other words, the ones in that covenant would reign with him in heaven. It was arranged with his 11 faithful Apostles, and then anyone thereafter who would be chosen to reign in heaven, after Pentecost.

What he said about anyone eating his flesh or drinking his blood was a figurative way of saying that whoever wanted to live forever, in heaven or on Earth, must believe that he gave his life to save mankind from eternal death. It did not involve the covenant for a Kingdom.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1224]
We've gotten a bit off-topic. What is there in the OP that shows you whether or not Jesus is God? Please take one of or each of the verses in the OP and comment.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1224]
We've gotten a bit off-topic. What is there in the OP that shows you whether or not Jesus is God? Please take one of or each of the verses in the OP and comment.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1224]
We've gotten a bit off-topic. What is there in the OP that shows you whether or not Jesus is God? Please take one of or each of the verses in the OP and comment.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1227]

What are some interesting verses in the OP that would show whether or not Jesus is God. Please comment.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1228]

It seems like no one really either understands or accepts the verses printed in the OP. OK, let's just think of the fact that Jehovah our God showed fantastic love for his creation by giving his Son as a ransom sacrifice for our non-willful sins. God and Jesus are distinguished between throughout the Scriptures....there are TWO individuals we are talking about. That can be seen even in the popular John 3:16 where the two are separated (into God and Son).

"For God [Jehovah] so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son [Jesus] so that whosoever believeth in him would not perish but have everlasting life."
How does this show that they are the same Person or that Jesus is himself God?

[iam1me2023]

Good scripture references in the OP There are a wide variety of such passages that clearly contradict the notion that Jesus is God Almighty himself. Jesus certainly never made such a claim of himself - but taught that he was the Son of God and sent by God.

Now, there are certain verses where Jesus is addressed as God in some sense. Those who are unfamiliar with the OT might incorrectly think this should be interpreted literally. However, do not forget that Jesus is the prophet like Moses - and God made Moses God (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron was said to be his prophet (Exodus 7). Angels are referred to and speak as if God - even YHWH - such as the Angel in the burning bush (Exodus 3). More generally, Jesus says the scriptures call those to whom the Word of God came to be gods (John 10:34).

Thus the scriptures are much more liberal in their application of the term “God” than how those who are not familiar with the scriptures might think. Clearly not everyone called god is literally God Almighty. Nor are they false gods in these cases. Rather, those who serve as God’s representatives, especially the more important ones who are sent with power, are addressed as such.

As such, the burden of proof now falls on the Trinitarian to defend the literal interpretation of “God” when applied to Christ as opposed to following the biblical precedent of how the term is applied symbolically to others like Moses.