Protection of children in schools, USA

[oldbadger]

This my question:-

I've heard about many mass shootings in US schools over recent years.
Assuming that nothing is going to change about gun law at all, does anybody have any positive suggestions for the reduction and deterring of such outrages?

I think that to employ security officers is a good idea if their training, duties, patrols and inspections can be sorted out.
I think that more effective perimeter security could help.
I think that more effective access control would help.

But members...please! What do you think might reduce these mass murders and increase child safety?

NB:- There's not point in arguing for gun controls, because even if guns controls happen, this country is so full of guns that anybody is going to be able to acquire a gun for many decades to come.

So.... does any body have any ideas to offer?

Thank you.

[Athetotheist]

This my question:-

I've heard about many mass shootings in US schools over recent years.
Assuming that nothing is going to change about gun law at all, does anybody have any positive suggestions for the reduction and deterring of such outrages?

I think that to employ security officers is a good idea if their training, duties, patrols and inspections can be sorted out.
I think that more effective perimeter security could help.
I think that more effective access control would help.

But members...please! What do you think might reduce these mass murders and increase child safety?

NB:- There's not point in arguing for gun controls, because even if guns controls happen, this country is so full of guns that anybody is going to be able to acquire a gun for many decades to come.

So.... does any body have any ideas to offer?

Thank you.

Sorry, I'm not going with the "take the best option off the table" approach.

[Purple Knight]

Better gun control, for, and within, schools. Do the airline thing on them as they enter. If we can keep guns off planes we can keep them out of schools.

[oldbadger]

Sorry, I'm not going with the "take the best option off the table" approach.

You're truly sorry? OK....... I'll accept that.

You have an option on the table which will reduce or deter mass killings? You do?!
And you have no interest in enhanced school security?

It's time to actually spend some money on school security, and if by any chance you manage to control guns in any ways, well that might begin to make a difference in a few generations.

Where I live our schools seem to have much tighter security and access control....... you need better/higher perimeter fencing, better access and egress control, and all external-glazing should be anti-bandit quality........ that's just for starters. And if teachers have licences for pistols then they should be trained, qualified and insured to carry them in schools. Armed security officers should be employed to carry out various duties, inspections and patrols.

So, even if you are fortunate enough to ever get more gun controls........ you're going to need to spend some money.

[oldbadger]

Better gun control, for, and within, schools. Do the airline thing on them as they enter. If we can keep guns off planes we can keep them out of schools.

Yes.......... it will cost money, but that's what is needed for increased protection in schools.

Gun controls might help in several generations, but the USA is so swamped with guns that controls won't be able to help for a very long time.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #4

You have an option on the table which will reduce or deter mass killings? You do?!
And you have no interest in enhanced school security?

I have no interest in falling back on enhanced school security as the only option, or even the best option.

https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback

https://www.buzzworthy.com/switzerland-gun-laws/

And if teachers have licences for pistols then they should be trained, qualified and insured to carry them in schools.

A few years ago I attended a school district presentation on safety given by a threat assessment consultant. He related that when asked if he would recommend arming teachers, his answer was----and I quote----"Not in a million years".

That answer makes sense. When police arrive at the scene of a mass shooting, they're looking for someone with a gun. If teachers are armed, it adds to the confusion as to who the attacker is and makes the situation more dangerous. Police aren't there to provide protection or guide anyone to safety; their goal is to neutralize the threat. Thus, they're on the lookout for anyone who appears to be a threat and they don't have time to try to figure out if that person over there is a teacher with a gun or an attacker who took a teacher's gun.

There are approaches worth taking before turning schools into armed camps in a misapplication of the allhallowed Second Amendment, which needs a serious re-writing anyway.

[oldbadger]

I have no interest in falling back on enhanced school security as the only option, or even the best option.

That's the trouble........... people in America thinking up reasons for doing nothing positive about school security....... you do care about children in schools don't you? Time to spend some money.

A few years ago I attended a school district presentation on safety given by a threat assessment consultant. He related that when asked if he would recommend arming teachers, his answer was----and I quote----"Not in a million years".

You could only have impressed me with that unknown 'expert's' advice if you had shown his reasoning.....and his qualifications for such a title.
I don't know a security consultant or frisk-assessor who would speak like that......... they work in small %s ...... so I won't take any notice of that.
Such a consultant (if he said that) is an impost.

The only casualties this year (so far) have been lots of murdered children while in schools. Where I live the local infants school has 14' high chain link perimeter fence, shrouded........ code lock access to various parts of the property and access control, and all tradesmen are accompanied by somebody....... that's in the UK!

That answer makes sense. When police arrive at the scene of a mass shooting, they're looking for someone with a gun. If teachers are armed, it adds to the confusion as to who the attacker is and makes the situation more dangerous. Police aren't there to provide protection or guide anyone to safety; their goal is to neutralize the threat. Thus, they're on the lookout for anyone who appears to be a threat and they don't have time to try to figure out if that person over there is a teacher with a gun or an attacker who took a teacher's gun.

Ridiculous! Armed police call out as they move forward.......... everybody needs to lay down and not move. In America nearly anybody can be armed, anywhere, and although wrongful shootings are sure to happen in a land awash with guns, police are trained.

I'll tell you right now....if we lived in the US I would want my wife to have a gun, licenced, qualified and insured.

There are approaches worth taking before turning schools into armed camps in a misapplication of the allhallowed Second Amendment, which needs a serious re-writing anyway.

Oh no............ you're one of those?
Are you really a 'schools are not prisons and our children not convicts' type?
A really good attempt to spend nothing on schools?

Of course schools should be perimeter secured and access controlled!!! How will schools stop abductions? !! How can they secure all children from just wandering out of school? The 'our kids ain't convicts' is a 'we don't want to pay for school security' chant.

By all and any means, the US should control guns, but it won't mamke much difference for decades if the US does, so it's time to gdet up and do something.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #7

You could only have impressed me with that unknown 'expert's' advice if you had shown his reasoning.....

I did show his reasoning.

.....and his qualifications for such a title.

What are your qualifications?

Armed police call out as they move forward.......... everybody needs to lay down and not move.

Then there's no rationale for teachers being armed. Let police do their job.

In America nearly anybody can be armed, anywhere

That's one of the roots of the problem.

and although wrongful shootings are sure to happen in a land awash with guns, police are trained.

And although police are trained......

https://daiglelawgroup.com/new-study-on ... -stack-up/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19462309/

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _incidents

And if this is the situation with police, drafting teachers into the arms race is.....

https://giffords.org/articles/every-inc ... n-schools/

https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schooled/g ... JVpeu58cM/

Of course schools should be perimeter secured and access controlled!!! How will schools stop abductions? !! How can they secure all children from just wandering out of school?

Teachers don't have to be armed to keep children from wandering out of school.

As for the safety of preventing school abductions with guns, see above.

The 'our kids ain't convicts' is a 'we don't want to pay for school security' chant.

What you seem to be missing is that if we spent more on social services, we wouldn't have to spend nearly as much on security. It's the "ounce of prevention" principle.

And I don't buy the "gun control won't make a difference for decades" line. It's too convenient, like the "now isn't the time to talk about gun control" mantra trotted out after every mass shooting. The sooner gun control is implemented, the sooner it will work.

[oldbadger]

And I don't buy the "gun control won't make a difference for decades" line. It's too convenient, like the "now isn't the time to talk about gun control" mantra trotted out after every mass shooting. The sooner gun control is implemented, the sooner it will work.

Well by all means move for gun controls......... don't talk about it for decades whilst doing nothing!

So you don't buy the fact that the US is so awash with guns that anybody will be able to acquire a gun for decades to come, regardless of any future gun controls?

And clearly you're not prepared to buy decent security systems, procedures and equipment for all schools.

You ain't going to buy anything!

And yes, I was a security professional. What did/do you do for a living?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #9

Well by all means move for gun controls......... don't talk about it for decades whilst doing nothing!

It can be hard to move for gun control with opposition from a powerful gun lobby. You don't seem to know much about US politics.

So you don't buy the fact that the US is so awash with guns that anybody will be able to acquire a gun for decades to come, regardless of any future gun controls?

What I buy is that the US is so awash with guns that anybody will be able to acquire a gun for decades to come UNLESS we enact better gun controls NOW.

And clearly you're not prepared to buy decent security systems, procedures and equipment for all schools.

What I'm not prepared to do is rely solely on security systems, procedures and equipment. Security systems are more effective when there's less force coming against them.

You ain't going to buy anything!

How about buying back all those guns?

And yes, I was a security professional. What did/do you do for a living?

I'm employed by an outside contractor providing services to students. I've worked in schools on a daily basis for years. I was in a classroom during a break period when two students came in and informed the teacher of the Sandy Hook massacre. I've been in school lockdowns both practice and real. I'm not a stranger in this land; I know the territory.