God wants to communicate truth to his creation, right? Thus, if this is the case, then why communicate like he did? Many were/are illiterate, and/or are lazy. Meaning, many Christians have not made a true effort to read their Bible's, from cover to cover, and try to understand it completely. God would know all of this. But even if all read the Bible, and felt they understood every word, mass disagreement would soon develop anyways. As evidence by the endless denominations. Further, even the highly educated do not agree. Heck, we can even go as far as to establish that people who study hermeneutics do not agree. Even in the best case of scenarios, if everyone were to pick up a Bible, read it several times from cover to cover; mass disagreement, on many topics, would likely still persist.
For Debate:
Seems as though Jesus-God did a poor job in clearly conveying his message(s). Does Jesus-God REALLY wish to convey truth to his creation? Because if he does, why be satisfied with the published Bible?
Christianity's Problem
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Christianity's Problem
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #151It ain't God's truth we're fretting so much, as it is your inability to show you know it.
The liar lies and the preacher preaches.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #152JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:44 pmIt ain't God's truth we're fretting so much, as it is your inability to show you know it.
The liar lies and the preacher preaches.
Not so easy to get the light into this worlds darkness. Its why 99% will fall when Jesus returns to the earth here at Rev 19:11. It is why he compared these last days to Noahs day( 99.9% ) fell)
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #153Have you ever heard of a candle?kjw47 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:56 pmNot so easy to get the light into this worlds darkness.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:44 pm It ain't God's truth we're fretting so much, as it is your inability to show you know it.
The liar lies and the preacher preaches.
Please offer some means by which we may confirm these future events will actually occur.Its why 99% will fall when Jesus returns to the earth here at Rev 19:11. It is why he compared these last days to Noahs day( 99.9% ) fell)
The liar lies and the preacher preaches.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #154Moderator Final Warning
Again, please cease from the personal comments.
Please review the Rules.
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Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #155Bosom buddies me and Otseng. He'll fight for my honor every day. He is doing the Mods job, nothing more. You show me your argument, I show they are garbage and then they go in the refuse pit of polemics. If you think I have 0 to debate with, it shouldn't be hard for you to refute me, using Evidence and Logic, not Faith or threats of divine retribution. Otherwise you have 0 to bring to the forum, except some fun .kjw47 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:34 pmTRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 11:42 amWell, yes.I agree. The prophecies of Jesus are - my suggestion - either fitting OT to the Jesus story, mistranslating as in your examples, misunderstanding as in the Two donkeys and misusing as in the 'prophecies' of Judas' death, or constructing the Jesus story around bits of the OT. Take Luke's declaration at Nazareth (using the rejection at Nazareth moved to first thing in the mission) quotes Isaiah as a prophecy of Jesus. A made - up event that we can see in Mark and Matthew but omitting all the stuff about attempted murder. Same with the spear thrust. Since the synoptics don't mention it, the suspicion must be that it never happened. In fact Luke pretty much refutes it at 24.33-9. So where did John get the idea it happened? He tells us at 19.36/7. The 'prophecy' was there in Psalms, it was used to create screenplay, but is contradicted by the Synoptics.Avoice wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 5:31 am If Christian’s were taught from page one of Genesis they would never accept the Christian Testsment.
But they aren’t.
Sure they read the basic stories of the Hebrew Scriotures. Noah’s Ark. Garden of Eden. Giving of Ten Commandments. Parting of the sea.
But from a child their learning begins with the writer of Mathew. And when they do flip back snd read the Hebrew Scriptures they think everything points to Jesus.
Nonesense.
Their truth depends on mistranslated and manipulated text. It fails under accurate translations.
EXAMPLE: The LORD said to my Lord sit at my right hand until…”
WRONG In many ways
1) there are no capitals in Hebrew
2) it says the lord said to my master. It’s speaking about what God said to king David. Not about Jesus
EXAMPLE: “Behold the virgin will conceive and bare a son..”
WRONG in many ways.
1) it says Behold THE YOUNG WOMAN. It doesn’t say virgin.
2). It says IS WITH CHILD. Not WILL conceive. The woman was pregnant when Isaiah wrote that
3) it’s not about the birth of Jesus or the messiah. The child is merely used as a calender. The SIGN is not about the kid it’s about king Ahaz’ enemies. That when that child reaches a certain age those enemies will be destroyed. AND LIKE IT SAYS IN THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THE CHAPTER:
It came to pass in the days of Ahaz,
THERE IS NO VIRGIN BIRTH PROPHECY. Reficulous!
Job done, I'd say. Even if the believers reject the evidence (I Prophecy they will), the hypothesis is amply backed up by the evidence in the Bible itself. So no matter what they believe, the evidence is really in favour of what the doubters think.
That's a "Just Wow" moment if I ever saw one.kjw47 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:37 pmbrunumb wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:49 pmRighteous and wicked are subjective terms. Some might regard shunning and disfellowshiping as righteous while others will regard them as wicked. As a righteous person I regard shunning as wicked.kjw47 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:16 pmJoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 9:56 pmCalling them real doesn't make them factual.kjw47 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 9:22 pm
You are good at twisting everything. The teachings of Jesus are very real.
There are only 2 kinds of people on earth in Gods view--the righteous and the wicked. Our actions prove who we are.
That is because you do not know God( John 15:20-21) -- 1 Cor 5:9-13-- speaking against any who was called brother( baptized) and became unrepentent. It says don't even eat a meal with the such. They have become Gods enemies. Jesus said members( Matt 10:36) of ones own household would become their enemies. Why? Because they are Gods enemies.
In the OT an unrepentent one was to be stoned to death--Which would you choose for your family member?
You think you are righteous while you clearly stand in opposition to Gods view-- You need to rethink.
It's refreshing, friends,to see the snivelling, hypocritical,talk of Love, Compassion and Kindness get dropped and the real, heartfelt, hate, and longing for divine retribution, and condign and terminal justice meted out to anyone who doesn't vote right. It's like a breath of ..well not clean air exactly, but it's nice to see the mask drop and we know just what we are dealing with, right?
Friends, here's Christianity's problem,
"What does that mean?" It means, giving the credit for human achievements to the religion.
Your buddy otseng wouldn't like my answer to you. I show you truth, you throw it in the garbage. Because you have 0 to debate with against Gods truth.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #156[Replying to Diogenes in post #29]
Even if all that is true, and for the sake of argument, let's just assume it is. It doesn't change anything I said. It has zero force against the fact that Catholics are united in dogmas.
Even if all that is true, and for the sake of argument, let's just assume it is. It doesn't change anything I said. It has zero force against the fact that Catholics are united in dogmas.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #157[Replying to POI in post #28]
Like 1.3 billion have it right. The next largest chunk of Christianity are Lutherans and Anglicans, who agree on most dogmas with the church. The rest is such a small slice of the Christian pie. For example there are only 75 million Calvinists. 36 million are Baptists. There are 16 million Mormons. Almost 8 million JWs, and so on. The amount of people that claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity are such a tiny slice of Christianity, so even most protestants agree on many major dogmas.
Those that have it totally wrong, to the point it becomes a salvational issue are a tiny little group. To put some of it into perspective, there are about 750 million atheists in the world, compared to 8 million JWs and 16 million Mormons.
Like 1.3 billion have it right. The next largest chunk of Christianity are Lutherans and Anglicans, who agree on most dogmas with the church. The rest is such a small slice of the Christian pie. For example there are only 75 million Calvinists. 36 million are Baptists. There are 16 million Mormons. Almost 8 million JWs, and so on. The amount of people that claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity are such a tiny slice of Christianity, so even most protestants agree on many major dogmas.
Those that have it totally wrong, to the point it becomes a salvational issue are a tiny little group. To put some of it into perspective, there are about 750 million atheists in the world, compared to 8 million JWs and 16 million Mormons.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #158This answer is so unsatisfactory, I'm just going to re-issue my prior response.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:05 am [Replying to POI in post #28]
Like 1.3 billion have it right. The next largest chunk of Christianity are Lutherans and Anglicans, who agree on most dogmas with the church. The rest is such a small slice of the Christian pie. For example there are only 75 million Calvinists. 36 million are Baptists. There are 16 million Mormons. Almost 8 million JWs, and so on. The amount of people that claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity are such a tiny slice of Christianity, so even most protestants agree on many major dogmas.
Those that have it totally wrong, to the point it becomes a salvational issue are a tiny little group. To put some of it into perspective, there are about 750 million atheists in the world, compared to 8 million JWs and 16 million Mormons.
Apparently, God weighed in on a "collection of truth pronouncements". EVEN IF you are an earnest wannabe follower, many/most logically have the wrong interpretation about many things. Either, because they are ignorant, or maybe illiterate, or were taught from the wrong teacher, etc etc etc.... God would know this... SO EVEN IF Catholicism is the right flavor, MANY have it WRONG. WHY is God satisfied with the final publication (i.e.) the Bible? And in case you were not aware, you can see many differing churches directly next to each other.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #159Numbers prove nothing. The smaller and even exclusivist Christian sects are convinced they are the only ones that have the Dogma right. Your appeal to the Largest denomination must be the correct one is self - serving and in fact dishonest.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:05 am [Replying to POI in post #28]
Like 1.3 billion have it right. The next largest chunk of Christianity are Lutherans and Anglicans, who agree on most dogmas with the church. The rest is such a small slice of the Christian pie. For example there are only 75 million Calvinists. 36 million are Baptists. There are 16 million Mormons. Almost 8 million JWs, and so on. The amount of people that claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity are such a tiny slice of Christianity, so even most protestants agree on many major dogmas.
Those that have it totally wrong, to the point it becomes a salvational issue are a tiny little group. To put some of it into perspective, there are about 750 million atheists in the world, compared to 8 million JWs and 16 million Mormons.
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Re: Christianity's Problem
Post #160Absolutely right! I completely agree Catholics are united in dogma. That's the purpose of dogma and religion in general - to unite groups. As Harari points out in Sapiens, in the section on 'The Cognitive Revolution,' when man became capable of transmitting ideas about things that don't really exist it became possible to get very large groups to cooperate.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:42 am [Replying to Diogenes in post #29]
Even if all that is true, and for the sake of argument, let's just assume it is. It doesn't change anything I said. It has zero force against the fact that Catholics are united in dogmas.