Christians kill gay people

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boatsnguitars
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Christians kill gay people

Post #1

Post by boatsnguitars »

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ole-uganda

Evangelical Americans help Uganda create, and pass, the "Kill the gays" law.

Where did they get the idea to kill gay people? Why would this seem right to a Christian?

Is this a good example of how dangerous religion is?

What Christians would dare argue against a command from God?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #2

Post by Purple Knight »

boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:32 am Evangelical Americans help Uganda create, and pass, the "Kill the gays" law.
They didn't help in any way other than speaking against homosexuality in a seminar.
boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:32 amWhere did they get the idea to kill gay people? Why would this seem right to a Christian?
From the article, it looks like they're trying to fight AIDS.
Although laws against homosexuality (“unnatural acts”) have been on the books for decades in Uganda, the proposed legislation would make penalties even harsher. Among its provisions: People who have homosexual sex more than once, or who have gay sex with minors, could receive a death sentence. So could HIV-positive individuals who have consensual homosexual sex.

It's a harsh lesson about reality. It might be that you should have unlimited rights to be irresponsible in your private life, but you don't. The effects on society are not always somebody else's problem. If somebody doesn't come up with a solution that respects rights, the government is going to come up with a solution that doesn't.

The government should not do that. But it must and does. Think of the government as a wild beast if it helps. If you threaten its other cubs, it will kill you. Moralise all you want about how you should have the right to free love. Consent = fine. It's their own fault they got AIDS. Okay. You're still killing the beast's cubs, and the beast will still kill you for it.

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boatsnguitars
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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #3

Post by boatsnguitars »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:50 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:32 am Evangelical Americans help Uganda create, and pass, the "Kill the gays" law.
They didn't help in any way other than speaking against homosexuality in a seminar.
boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:32 amWhere did they get the idea to kill gay people? Why would this seem right to a Christian?
From the article, it looks like they're trying to fight AIDS.
Although laws against homosexuality (“unnatural acts”) have been on the books for decades in Uganda, the proposed legislation would make penalties even harsher. Among its provisions: People who have homosexual sex more than once, or who have gay sex with minors, could receive a death sentence. So could HIV-positive individuals who have consensual homosexual sex.

It's a harsh lesson about reality. It might be that you should have unlimited rights to be irresponsible in your private life, but you don't. The effects on society are not always somebody else's problem. If somebody doesn't come up with a solution that respects rights, the government is going to come up with a solution that doesn't.

The government should not do that. But it must and does. Think of the government as a wild beast if it helps. If you threaten its other cubs, it will kill you. Moralise all you want about how you should have the right to free love. Consent = fine. It's their own fault they got AIDS. Okay. You're still killing the beast's cubs, and the beast will still kill you for it.
In addition, the Ugandan organizers of the seminar were involved in writing the bill, The Times reported. For his part, Lively has said he did speak about the bill with Ugandan lawmakers.
Also drawing criticism was megachurch pastor and bestselling author Rick Warren, who has past associations with Ugandan pastor Martin Ssempa, an ardent supporter of the bill. Warren initially avoided any direct condemnation of the proposed Uganda law. In December, however, he wrote a letter to pastors in Uganda denouncing the proposed law as “unjust, extreme and un-Christian toward homosexuals.”
HIV/AIDS affects heterosexuals too - so why the death penalty for a gay person who has sex twice?

It's a bad bill. It's immoral. It's anti-gay - not anti-disease. And the correct answer is that the Bible is where they got the idea to kill gay people.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #4

Post by Purple Knight »

boatsnguitars wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:12 amHIV/AIDS affects heterosexuals too - so why the death penalty for a gay person who has sex twice?
Because gay sex spreads HIV more easily. Specifically, male-to-male sex.

It's not about being fair. It's not about only punishing people who did something wrong. It's about stopping it where it's spreading.

Though it does occur that if they just tested everyone and sentenced everyone to death who turned up positive, the problem would immediately disappear.
boatsnguitars wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:12 amIt's a bad bill. It's immoral. It's anti-gay
That's true. But its immorality is a moot point. The government will not stand by and let their entire populace die of AIDS. If the stuff that respects rights doesn't work, they'll do stuff that doesn't.
boatsnguitars wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:12 am - not anti-disease. And the correct answer is that the Bible is where they got the idea to kill gay people.
That's actually a leap. It's an example of, 1 + 1 = 2, so this 2 must be a result of two 1's having been added together. But this particular 2 could have been 1 x 2, it could have been 1.5 + 0.5, and it could have been any number of other things. 1 + 1 is just the most common way to get a 2, and therefore the most probable. It's actually the same kind of reasoning the Ugandan government might be using. Homosexual sex spreads AIDS, so let's just kill the gay people spreading it.

But for those of us who don't think the Bible is divine, we have to admit that people hated homosexuality before the Bible was written, for reasons other than the Bible saying so, because they had those reasons to write it into the Bible in the first place.

If you want to assume that it's hatred at play, I don't think that's a terrible leap; it's just a nonzero leap. The lesser assumption is just the Ugandan government are trying to fight AIDS, they're not omniscient, and they don't care whose rights they trample in the process.

The fact that there's a rational reason doesn't make it right. Imagine if the Nazis didn't sterilise Jews and just did it to the disabled. It wouldn't be right but that doesn't mean there can't be a rational reason. Bad guys who are motivated by entirely blind hate are rare.

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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #5

Post by AgnosticBoy »

boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:32 am https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ole-uganda

Evangelical Americans help Uganda create, and pass, the "Kill the gays" law.

Where did they get the idea to kill gay people? Why would this seem right to a Christian?

Is this a good example of how dangerous religion is?

What Christians would dare argue against a command from God?
I'm glad that you didn't stay focused on what a certain Christian or Christian group has done, and have also asked about the basis for their view. The latter aspect should be the focus when deciding if some view is a valid Christian view.

So we have a group of Christians that help support laws that involve "killing the gays". I presume that those Christians would say the Bible justifies that, but in reality it doesn't. What did Jesus say or do when confronted with sinful people? Fortunately, there is a case where Jesus was asked about killing someone caught in a sinful act. This relates to the OP when it comes to killing gays:
John 8:3-5, 7-11
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
I hope you noticed there that Jesus did not advocate for killing those in sin. Most importantly, the reason for that is that EVERYONE has sinned and we'd all would be killed eventually. Therefore, killing someone for being in sinful lifestyle is not Christianity-based, even if some Christians decide to do so. Now if a civil government decides to do it, then that's government but it wouldn't be valid to say that you're doing it for God.
Purple Knight wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:21 pm But for those of us who don't think the Bible is divine, we have to admit that people hated homosexuality before the Bible was written, for reasons other than the Bible saying so, because they had those reasons to write it into the Bible in the first place.

If you want to assume that it's hatred at play, I don't think that's a terrible leap; it's just a nonzero leap. The lesser assumption is just the Ugandan government are trying to fight AIDS, they're not omniscient, and they don't care whose rights they trample in the process.

The fact that there's a rational reason doesn't make it right. Imagine if the Nazis didn't sterilise Jews and just did it to the disabled. It wouldn't be right but that doesn't mean there can't be a rational reason. Bad guys who are motivated by entirely blind hate are rare.
Minus any specific example about Hiv, I tried to make a point similar to yours in another thread regarding Christianity and homophobia. I'm not sure that boatsnguitars got the point so maybe I can do better to reiterate it here.

Does the Bible say homosexuality is wrong? Yes.
Does that mean God hates gays? No.

Of course, one reason why someone would be against homosexuality is because of hate, BUT there can be reasons other than hate for someone to be against homosexuality as well. Eventhough homosexuality causes no harm as shown by science, but God or some followers may be against it because it goes against his design or plans.
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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #6

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Came here for the Christians saying, "They hadn't oughta done that."

I'll check back in here in another century to see if any of em have.
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Re: Christians kill gay people

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Post by Miles »

boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:32 am https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... ole-uganda

Evangelical Americans help Uganda create, and pass, the "Kill the gays" law.

Where did they get the idea to kill gay people?
From the Bible. Presuming all gays have anal intercourse with each other . . .

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

would be the go-ahead.

Why would this seem right to a Christian?
It's the good Christian's duty to follow the commands of their god.


Is this a good example of how dangerous religion is?

The Judaeo-Christian religions anyway.


What Christians would dare argue against a command from God?
Ex-Christians who saw the light of reason.

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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #8

Post by LittleNipper »

I personally perceive that true Christians are far more perseverant towards homosexuality than most secular people. Far more homosexuals have been injured or killed in some barfight then have ever been killed in some church down the street. In fact, Jeffery Dahmer murdered far more homosexuals (or those he wanted to have sex with) than any Christian congregation I've heard talked about, and he was apparently gay (go figure)...

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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #9

Post by Miles »

LittleNipper wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:47 pm I personally perceive that true Christians are far more perseverant towards homosexuality than most secular people.
Exactly what is it you're perceiving that leads you to this conclusion?

Far more homosexuals have been injured or killed in some barfight then have ever been killed in some church down the street.
Would you expect anything different? Because as I understand the issue, far more homosexuals have been injured or killed in some bar fight then have ever been killed in day-care centers, or meat markets, or accounting offices on the thirty-fourth floor.

In fact, Jeffery Dahmer murdered far more homosexuals (or those he wanted to have sex with) than any Christian congregation I've heard talked about, and he was apparently gay (go figure)...
But just how many homosexuals has any "Christian congregations you've heard talked about" killed?

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Re: Christians kill gay people

Post #10

Post by brunumb »

LittleNipper wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:47 pm Far more homosexuals have been injured or killed in some barfight then have ever been killed in some church down the street.
Now you just need to show the lack of any religious persuasion in those people killing homosexuals in bars to prop up your pretty shonky argument.
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