Nudity

[boatsnguitars]

No doubt, some bodies are amazing. No doubt, some people can't handle it - and act criminally if they can't have what they see. No doubt, we need clothes for many reasons - some times just to get work done, without distraction.
No doubt some religions have swung the pendulum far the other way and forbid any visible skin, or even eye balls. No doubt, some religions shame people's nudity, sexuality, or even suggestive clothing.

Sculptures of nude bodies were quite common, but many religious people have found them objectionable.

I'm curious what people think about the issue. Say, see-through dresses? Topless beaches? Nude beaches? Nude camps? Nude sculptures - completely nude, or with fig leaves? What about nude bike rides (see Philadelphia)?

Are people who go nude inviting rape or assault, or is this victim blaming? (I went to a nude party and one of the people I was with (a guy) was asked by another guy. "Oh, wow, can I touch it?" (He said, "yes" and it was a respectful touch... Not my bag, but we can see how people deal with nudity differently.)
(Also, I was at a party where a woman was showing another woman her nipple piercings and let her touch her breasts. I talked to her, and she said she also got her labia pierced. She asked if I wanted to see, so i said "yes" - and it was, in fact pierced.)

In many places in Europe, topless beaches are the norm (as are "banana hammocks" for men) - there is a greater comfort with nudity, or at least, suggestiveness.

Meanwhile, India is know to be both very conservative AND one of the rape capitals of the world.

Then, there's this - is it basically nudity, or is it sculpture? (image of woman wearing a cast of her own torso as a shirt):
https://edition.cnn.com/style/lupita-ny ... tonys-lotw

I think much of this is like Morality: it's subjective based on the society you've been raised in. In France, or Portugal, you'd think nothing of your women friends going topless at the beach with you. In America, you'd be shocked to see it. In Morocco, you'd be arrested. In Iran, stoned.

[Miles]

No doubt, some bodies are amazing. No doubt, some people can't handle it - and act criminally if they can't have what they see. No doubt, we need clothes for many reasons - some times just to get work done, without distraction.
No doubt some religions have swung the pendulum far the other way and forbid any visible skin, or even eye balls. No doubt, some religions shame people's nudity, sexuality, or even suggestive clothing.

Sculptures of nude bodies were quite common, but many religious people have found them objectionable.

I'm curious what people think about the issue. Say, see-through dresses?

Aside from the truly trashy outfits some women wear, there have been some see-through dresses that I do approve of if the woman has a decent body. Lacking such a body I think it's a hard thing for a woman to pull off. That said, if a woman wants to wear a see-through dress, go for it. Wear whatever you like.

Topless beaches?

Now wouldn't that be a nice strike for women's equality.

Nude beaches?

Had a nude beach in town for awhile, but the police kept shutting it down.

Nude camps?

If you can afford it, go for it.

Nude sculptures - completely nude, or with fig leaves?

Completely nude is fine by me. With fig leaves, not so much. Not because I necessarily enjoy looking at genitalia, but because of the priggish message they represent.

What about nude bike rides (see Philadelphia)?

Now here's something that appears to be catching on. From the List of World Naked Bike Rides

United States
 (Estados Unidos)

Based on regional divisions used by the United States Census Bureau.
Sorted first by region, then alphabetically by city.

If you need your city added or updated, feel free to contact Michael Beals on the Los Angeles ride email address: www.wnbrla.com

Midwest

Archived: Ann Arbor, MI; Detroit, MI; Grand Rapids, MI; Twin Cities/Minneapolis and Saint Paul, MN; Williston, ND

Committed to ride Chicago, IL: 24 Jun 2023 (Previous rides: 25 Jun 2022,14 Aug 2021, 8 Jun 2019, 9 Jun 2018, 10 Jun 2017, 11 Jun 2016, 13 Jun 2015, 14 Jun 2014, 8 Jun 2013, 9 Jun 2012, 11 Jun 2011, 12 Jun 2010, 13 Jun 2009, 14 Jun 2008, 9 Jun 2007, 10 Jun 2006, 11 Jun 2005, 12 Jun 2004)
Committed to ride Columbus, OH: 11 Jun 2022 (Previous rides: 15 Jun 2019, 2018, 3 Jun 2017, 11 Jun 2016, 2015, 2014, 15 Jun 2013, 9 Jun 2012, 12 Jun 2011, 19 Jun 2010)
Committed to ride Madison, WI: 17 Jun 2023, (Previous rides: 18 Jun 2022, 28 Aug 2021, 15 Jun 2019, 16 Jun 2018, 17 Jun 2017, 18 Jun 2016, 20 Jun 2015, 21 Jun 2014, 15 Jun 2013, 16 Jun 2012, 18 Jun 2011, 19 Jun 2010)
Committed to ride Milwaukee, WI: 24 Jun 2023 (Previous rides: 25 Jun 2022, 11 Sep 2021)
Committed to ride Saint Louis, MO: 5 Aug 2023 (Previous rides: 30 Jul 2022, 17 Jul 2021, 20 Jul 2019, 21 Jul 2018, 15 Jul 2017, 16 Jul 2016, 18 Jul 2015, 26 Jul 2014, 27 Jul 2013, 28 Jul 2012, 11 Jun 2011, 19 Jun 2010, 15 Aug 2009, 2 Aug 2008)

Northeast

Archived: Albany, NY; Burlington, VT; Indianapolis, IN; Ithaca, NY; Montclair, NJ; New Haven, CT; Northampton, MA; North Conway, NH; Pittsfield, MA; Providence, RI

Committed to ride Boston, MA: 13 Aug 2022 (Previous rides: 20 Jul 2019, 21 Jul 2018, 22 Jul 2017, 9 Jul 2016, 11 Jul 2015, 28 Jun 2014, 29 Jun 2013, 7 Jul 2012, 9 Jul 2011, 12 Jun 2010)
Committed to ride Buffalo, NY: 22 Jul 2023 (Previous rides: 23 Jul 2022, 10 Jul 2021, 13 Jul 2019, 14 Jul 2018, 29 Jul 2017, 9 Jul 2016)
Committed to ride Montpelier, VT: 10 Jun 2023 (Previous rides: 11 Jun 2022, 12 Jun 2021, 22 Aug 2020, 8 Jun 2019, 9 Jun 2018, 10 Jun 2017, 11 Jun 2016, 20 Jun 2015, 14 Jun 2014, 8 Jun 2013, 9 Jun 2012, 11 Jun 2011, 12 Jun 2010, 13 Jun 2009, 7 Jun 2008, 9 Jun 2007)
Kickstart this ride New York City, NY: ? (Previous rides: 11 Jun 2016, 13 Jun 2015, 13 Jun 2014, 8 Jun 2013, 24 Jul 2012, 11 Jun 2011, 12 Jun 2010, 13 Jun 2009)
Committed to ride Philadelphia, PA: 26 Aug 2023 (Previous rides: 27 aug 2022, 28 Aug 2021, 24 Aug 2019, 8 Sep 2018, 9 Sep 2017, 10 Sep 2016, 29 Aug 2015, 6 Sep 2014, 25 Aug 2013, 25 Aug 2012, 4 Sep 2011, 5 Sep 2010, 6 Sep 2009)

South

Archived: Asheville, NC; Atlanta, GA; Baltimore, MD; College Station, TX; Crossville, AL; Knoxville, TN; Lexington, KY; Miami, FL; Palm Coast, FL; Pensacola, FL; Prince George County, VA; Saint Petersburg, FL; Tampa Bay, FL; Tulsa, OK; Washington, DC

Committed to ride Austin, TX: 11 Jun 2022 (Previous rides: 9 Oct 2021, 10 Jun 2017, 11 Jun 2016, 13 Jun 2015, 7 Jun 2014, 15 Jun 2013, 9 Jun 2012, ? Jun 2010, ? Jun 2008, 10 Jun 2006, 11 Jun 2005, 12 Jun 2004)
Committed to ride Houston, TX: 9 Sep 2023 (Previous rides: 10 Sep 2022, 19 Jun 2021, 20 Jul 2019, 8 Jun 2019, 14 Jul 2018, 9 Jun 2018, 17 Jun 2017, 11 Jun & 9 Jul 2016, 20 & 13 Jun 2015, 21 & 14 Jun 2014, 15 & 8 Jun 2013, 16 & 9 Jun 2012, 11 Jun 2011)
Committed to ride New Orleans, LA: 11 Jun 2022 (Previous rides: 12 Jun 2021, 9 Jun 2018, 10 Jun 2017, 11 Jun 2016, 13 Jun 2015, 14 Jun 2014, 8 Jun 2013, 9 Jun 2012, 9 Jun 2011, 12 Jun 2010, 13 Jun 2009)

West

Archived: Boulder, CO; Denver, CO; Ojai, CA; Olympia, WA; Salt Lake City, UT; Santa Cruz, CA; Santa Fe, NM; Telluride, CO; Tucson, AZ

Kickstart this ride Albuquerque, NM: ? Looking for organizers: info@wnbrla.com
Committed to ride Bellingham, WA: 4 Jun 2023 (Previous rides: 5 Jun 2022, Jun 2017, ... ? ..., 12 Jun 2010, 19 Jun 2004)
Kickstart this ride Bend, OR: ? (Previous rides: 7 Jul 2018, 8 Jul 2017)
Kickstart this ride Berkeley, CA: ? (Previous rides: 20 Jun 2015, 14 Jun 2014, 15 Jun 2013, 16 Jun 2012, 18 Jun 2011, 19 Jun 2010, 20 Jun 2009)
Kickstart this ride Eugene, OR: ?, 23 Jun 2018 Lapsed (Previous rides: 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008)
Kickstart this ride Las Vegas, NV: ?, 28 Sep 2019 Lapsed (Previous rides: 8 Sep 2018)
Committed to ride Los Angeles, CA: 24 Jun 2023 (Previous rides: 25 Jun 2022, 18 Sep 2021, 22 Jun 2019, 23 Jun 2018, 10 Jun 2017, 11 Jun 2016, 27 Jun 2015, 28 Jun 2014, 6 Jume 2013, 16 Jun 2012, 11 Jun 2011, 12 Jun 2010, 12 Jul 2008, 24 June 2006, 12 Jun 2004)
Kickstart this ride Phoenix, AZ: ? Looking for organizers: www.wnbrla.com
Committed to ride Portland, OR: 12 Aug 2023 (Previous rides: 30 Jul 2022, 30 Oct 2021, 22 Sep 2021, 21 Aug 2021, 30 Jul 2021 (am), 26 Jul 2021 (am), 23 Jul 2021, 23 Jun 2021, 29 Jun 2019, 23 Jun 2018, 24 Jun 2017, 25 Jun 2016, 27 Jun 2015, 7 Jun 2014, 8 Jun 2013, 16 & 9 Jun 2012, 18 & 11 Jun 2011, 19 & 12 Jun 2010, 13 Jun 2009, 14 Jun 2008, 9 Jun 2007, 10 Jun 2006, 11 Jun 2005, 12 Jun 2004)
Kickstart this ride San Diego, CA: (Previous rides: 22 Jul 2019, 16 Jun 2018, 17 Jun 2017, 4 Jun 2016, 6 Jun 2015, 14 Jun 2014, 15 Jun 2013, 23 Jun 2012)
Committed to ride San Francisco, CA: June 11, 2023 (Previous rides: Apr 22 2023, Feb 12, 2023, Jan 1 2023, Sep 24, 2022, Jun 11 2022, Apr 23 2022, Mar 12 2022, Jan 1 2022, Jul 4 2021, Apr 24 2021, Jan 1 2021, Jul 4 2020, Jan 1 2020, Jul 13 2019, Jun 8 2019, Apr 20 2019, Mar 9 2019, Jan 1 2019, Jul 21 2018, Jun 9 2018, Apr 21 2018, Mar 10 2018, Jan 1 2018, Jul 8 2017, Jun 10 2017, Apr 22 2017, Mar 11 2017, Jan 1 2017, Jul 9 2016, Jun 11 2016, Apr 23 2016, Mar 12 2016 (rained out), Jul 25 2015, Jun 13 2015, Apr 18 2015, Mar 14 2015, Jul 26 2014, Jun 14 2015, Apr 19 2014, Mar 8 2014, Jun 8 2014, Jul 27 2014, Apr 20 2013, Mar 9 2013, Jul 28 2013, Jun 9 2013, Apr 22 2012, Mar 10 2012, Sep 24 2011, Jun 11 2011, Apr 23 2011, Apr 20 2011, Mar 12 2011, Jun 12 2010, Mar 13 2010, Jun 13 2009, Jun 7 2008, Jun 7 2007, Jun 10 2006, Jun 11 2005, Jun 12 2004)
Committed to ride Seattle, WA: 9 Sep 2022 (night) (Previous rides: 9 Jul 2022, 23 Jul 2021, 10 Aug 2019, 11 Aug 2018, 8 [day] & 1 [night] Jul 2017, 19 Aug [night] & 9 Jul [day] 2016, 1 Aug 2015, See Seattle Archive)

Are people who go nude inviting rape or assault, or is this victim blaming?

No more so than people who carry money are inviting a robbery.

In many places in Europe, topless beaches are the norm (as are "banana hammocks" for men) - there is a greater comfort with nudity, or at least, suggestiveness.

Meanwhile, India is know to be both very conservative AND one of the rape capitals of the world.

Then, there's this - is it basically nudity, or is it sculpture? (image of woman wearing a cast of her own torso as a shirt):
https://edition.cnn.com/style/lupita-ny ... tonys-lotw

Although I find nothing wrong with it, as with a lot of strange art I have to ask, Why?

I think much of this is like Morality: it's subjective based on the society you've been raised in. In France, or Portugal, you'd think nothing of your women friends going topless at the beach with you. In America, you'd be shocked to see it. In Morocco, you'd be arrested. In Iran, stoned.

Unless there's some compelling reason to cover up, such as cold weather, a hoard of mosquitoes or other bothersome insects, or having been recently sun burned, I don 't see any reason not to go naked other than the moral ethos of one's surrounding community---although please wear something on your bottom or sit on a towel if your going to ride public transportation, or sit in a restaurant, bar, or theater. Thank you.


.

[Purple Knight]

Nudity isn't going to be nasty unless you let it be. If our species somehow pulls through, we're not going to see nudity as something we can't do because children exist. Rather, we're going to look back at all the shame and discomfort we're foisting on our children by teaching them that nudity is shameful.

Are people who go nude inviting rape or assault, or is this victim blaming?

I don't like the idea that just because something is victim blaming, we have to stop in our tracks and not pursue that line of thinking.

If there's a shark-infested beach, and a rogue shark starts eating people, it's perfectly acceptable to tell people not to go in the water because sharks might eat them.

But this comes parceled with something else out of necessity: You kill the rogue shark. Yes, you tell people not to go in the water, but where "victim blaming" becomes psychotic is the point where you stop punishing the aggressor for something he has no right to do, just because the victim had a way to avoid the attack. If there's really a rogue shark eating people, you kill it.

You tell people not to go into the water, because that avoids the attack, and you also address the shark eating people, not leave it alone and ask people to never again do something they have every right to do - go in the water - because see, as long as you just kill yourself or move to another planet, you won't get murdered by the rampaging bandits, so you see, the bandits are fine and nothing needs to be done about them because if you get killed by them, it's your own fault. That's toxic victim-blaming. There is non-toxic victim blaming which is to suggest that people avoid the bandits until the government can capture them. Victim-blaming only becomes toxic when people are expected not to do what they have a right to do, indefinitely, to excuse society from fixing issues.

People ought to have the right to go nude, and if rape becomes an issue, ramp up punishment.