God's Need for Loyalty?
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God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #1I know that it has been argued and debated that God had to test Adam and Eve in order to see if they were loyal to him or not, but could the human race have gotten along alright if God didn't have the need to know what their loyalty was? Because it still hasn't been adequately explained as to why God needed to be sure of the first human pair's loyalty. However, it has only been dogmatically said that this is what God wanted. Therefore, could humankind had still been successful without a test of loyalty to God, or is this something that God needed to make himself feel more secure? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #51I was not offering to speculate about how they learnt of the law. You asked me ....
JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #52So are you saying that James 1:14-15 contradicts 2 Corinthians 11:3? Because James 1:14-16 could mean (and obviously does) that Eve's desire was because of what the serpent had tempted her with, according to Genesis 3:6:JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:24 pmJAMES 1: 14, 15
“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”
And the Hebrew word that represents 'when she saw' is Ra'ah:Webster's Bible Translation
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise; she took of its fruit, and ate, and gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/interli ... +3:6&t=kjv
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicon ... /raah.html
And where JWs translate as "consequently."4. (Hiphil)
- 1. to cause to see, show
- 2. to cause to look intently at, behold, cause to gaze a
And I guess that according to Matthew 4:1-12:
God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own... And as we know, God is on a timetable.Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Jesus Begins to Preach
12 When Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, he withdrew to Galilee
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #53No.Skeptical wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:15 pmSo are you saying that James 1:14-15 contradicts 2 Corinthians 11:3?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:24 pmJAMES 1: 14, 15
“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”
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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #54Where did you read that in the bible? I know of no scripture that says "God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own"
J W
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #55So, now you're saying that Adam and Eve were mind readers? And perhaps even had precognition where they had foreseen that God would give them a law about the tree of knowledge and therefore, already knew on their own that disobeying that law would be what would get them killed? However, apparently God didn't know that they already knew, and thus is why he gave them the law of the tree of knowledge. Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:48 pmI was not offering to speculate about how they learnt of the law. You asked me ....
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #56So, is that all? Just no?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:16 pmNo.Skeptical wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:15 pmSo are you saying that James 1:14-15 contradicts 2 Corinthians 11:3?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:24 pmJAMES 1: 14, 15
“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #57Dude, I almost belted out a big yawn. Because it sounds like you are not keeping up. However, you are free to read my post again and see if you are able to get the real meaning of what I said.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:19 pmWhere did you read that in the bible? I know of no scripture that says "God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own"
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #58Or maybe you don't understand sarcasm. smhSkeptical wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:28 pmDude, I almost belted out a big yawn. Because it sounds like you are not keeping up. However, you are free to read my post again and see if you are able to get the real meaning of what I said.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:19 pmWhere did you read that in the bible? I know of no scripture that says "God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own"
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #59No, that is not what I am saying.
No, I never said that.
Well I can categorically confirm that is not what I am saying.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: God's Need for Loyalty?
Post #60So, what are you saying? That only JWs are right and everyone else is wrong? And that no matter what you say and no matter how you reason and no matter what scriptures that you use, JWs are still always right just because?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:30 pmNo, that is not what I am saying.
No, I never said that.
Well I can categorically confirm that is not what I am saying.
JW