Beating a dead horse!!!

[Confused]

Yup, beating a dead horse here, but still have to follow. Why do I still want to believe? Why is it that despite all the logic, knowledge, evidence, etc... to the contrary, why do I still feel a shimmer of hope that I am wrong??????? Why do I still feel a spark of jealousy when theists speak of that peaceful feeling they have in their relationship with this God? Is it merely jealousy that I can't step out of reality? Is it jealousy that they project peace while my life seems one chaotic event after another?

WHAT THE HELL IS IT????????? And more importantly::::::::

HOW THE HELL DO I GET RID OF THIS???????????????????

[McCulloch]

Our species evolved to respect and follow unquestioningly the traditions and teachings of our elders. This trait, on average, improves the chances that we will survive, mate and raise the next generation, since we do not have to learn from scratch lessons already learned by our clan. Unfortunately, this also has a side-effect. We also tend to be quite reluctant to give up the traditions and teachings of our elders, even when they have been shown to be false.

Another factor is what Dennet calls intentionality and what Tony Atwood calls when it is missing mind blindness. It has been very useful to us to understand the intent and the mind set of other beings (people as well as non-human species). This makes it easier to understand and to predict the behaviour and reactions of others. We have, with much success, transferred this idea into the inanimate world. The water wants to find the lowest position. Taken to the nth degree, we have personified the universe and called it God.

Understanding how we got it, does not help to get rid of it, just as understanding the evolutionary basis for the enjoyment of sex makes it any less attractive.

[ST88]

Is it jealousy that they project peace while my life seems one chaotic event after another?

Does it help to know that everyone's life is chaotic and that the only advantage believers have is their ability to rationalize the chaos?

HOW THE HELL DO I GET RID OF THIS???????????????????

It is human to not know. Negative Capability is the idea that you can hold in your mind an unsolveable mystery without striving unnecessarily to have it solved. In short, you may find that you will never get rid of it. The scientific explanation that MacC gave works to some degree and on an intellectual level, but it doesn't have the warm fuzzies of all that religious crap. Take stock of what you are feeling now and remark about how easy it is to slip into a believing state even though intellectually you know it's not possible. I suggest freewriting, but then that's my own personal stress valve.

[bernee51]

Gidday Michelle – still ‘confused’?

Yup, beating a dead horse here, but still have to follow. Why do I still want to believe?

The desire to believe in ‘something’ appears to be a very human trait. We have a strong sense of the ‘the other’ and the path of least resistance is to equate this ‘other’ with a god concept.

Why is it that despite all the logic, knowledge, evidence, etc... to the contrary, why do I still feel a shimmer of hope that I am wrong???????

Wrong about god, wrong about christianity or wrong to doubt?

Why do I still feel a spark of jealousy when theists speak of that peaceful feeling they have in their relationship with this God?

How often do they reflect on their ‘relationship with god’ in a manner that brings this peaceful feeling? Or do you believe they are always ‘peaceful’? Does easyrider (for example) seem ‘peaceful’ to you?

They are the ones who perceive a ‘peaceful feeling’ – it is internal. However, they then transfer this characteristic they perceive onto what they believe is the object of their perception. The ‘peaceful’ feeling then, being internal, does not come from god but from the belief in a god concept. The ‘peaceful’ feeling is attainable by anyone – with or without a god belief.

Have you ever been enthralled (i.e. had a peaceful feeling, a ‘bliss’ response) by a thing of beauty - a sunset, a flower, a newborn baby? Have you ever sat and analysed what is happening. Why does the peace, the bliss, surface? Is it because for an instant the other distractions of life are not in the forefront of your mind? It is like a windblown pond where the ripples confuse images from the bottom suddenly settling and allowing a clear vision through to the depths.

Is it merely jealousy that I can't step out of reality?

What is reality? Our total experience of the phenomenal world is interpreted through the mind. It is all a construct. How ‘real’ is that? What you once believed was ‘real’, logic and knowledge have shown to be not so, to be illusory. How can it be then that what is ‘real’ now is not also illusory?

Is it jealousy that they project peace while my life seems one chaotic event after another?

As a (im)famous Australian outlaw said just before he was hung – “Such is life”.

HOW THE HELL DO I GET RID OF THIS???????????????????

Keep doing what you are doing but understand that you won’t (get rid of it). It is part and parcel of the human condition.

{{{{gratuitous advice warning}}}}

First gain an intellectual understanding of the root cause of suffering. Then work to live that understanding. I am finding that meditation and self-enquiry helps.

My ‘ground’ position is that we humans, like all other elements of the phenomenal world, come and go – no more no less. Whatever other ‘beliefs’ or devices I use to help me in my relationship with that world are a separate issue. My aim, in this process, is to live a life of compassion and caring. To add a little to 'spirit'. In the end though, as QED likes to say, it is a zero-sum game. All we are and all we will become are recycled elements.

[Confused]

Thanks for all the advice. It helps on both a personal and an intellectual level.