Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

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Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #1

Post by Skeptical »

I've enjoyed many of the X-Men movies and one character who I particularly thought was interesting was Kitty Pryde played by Ellen Page.



However, I was completely surprised when I found out that Ellen transitioned into Elliot Page fairly recently in the year 2020. Also, I recently read an article about his past gender dysphoria.
Thinking back to when he was much younger, prior to coming out as transgender, the 36-year-old actor recalled the discomfort that came with his changing body. “My body started to change and clothes sat on me differently,” Page added. “And all of that just was, really was the beginning of really sort of disconnecting from myself and feeling a degree of discomfort that was very erosive and damaging.

Elliot Page on How His Acting Career Impacted His Gender Dysphoria
Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of distress or discomfort because of the difference between a person’s gender (assigned at birth) and their gender identity. This applies to both males who are assigned a female gender at birth and females who were assigned the male gender at birth. People with gender dysphoria are normally transgender...

Dysphoria vs. Dysmorphia
Also, I had always wondered about this and wanted to ask Christians and JWs about this topic. Plus, years ago when I Bible studied with JWs and even went to some of their meetings at one of their Kingdom Halls, I remember seeing a man dressed up as a woman in the audience and standing up and signing JW Kingdom songs along with the rest of JWs, but I thought to myself that he or she must really be trying to change coming to the Kingdom Hall dressed like that.

Therefore, I wanted to ask Christians and JWs: Do trans members ever really change and stop being trans? Also, I am aware of the Bible verses that Christians and JWs use to condemn trans people such as Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 11:14–15, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 where Young's Literal Translation renders that verse as:
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
where the word "effeminate" is translated from the Greek word μαλακοὶ (malakoi), which means, "(a) soft, (b) of persons: soft, delicate, effeminate. Of uncertain affinity; soft." And I guess it's vice versa for masculine women. However, I would like to know other than the Bible saying don't be like this or don't be like that, do Christians or JWs ever wonder about why a person has cross gender identification in the first place? Because it's difficult for me to imagine that a little child who feels this way is being sinister and is trying to sin against God. Because to me, there always seemed to be a lot more to it such as how their brains function. Plus, it seem as if they're being blamed for something that they have no control over:
Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #41

Post by Skeptical »

I didn't real the full articles about these stories because it would be too time consuming, however, here a little bit from another article that I found:
I remember when I was really young, feeling strange whenever I would see a man without a shirt on. I used to get really giggly and flustered. Picking up little crushes for some men I didn't understand that I was gay. As the years went on I continued to have these feelings and as I got into high school they started getting stronger.

At this stage I started to realise what I was considered by society and the boy that was once bright and open and very talkative ceased to exist and I replaced it with shyness, quietness and sadness. I had also started experimenting with masturbation, to me I think it started off harmless enough, not realising at first that what I was doing wasn't accepted by Jehovah's people or Jehovah. Finally realising that I had a problem (considered a problem by Jehovah's Witnesses but normal by society and for most teenagers) with masturbation. I desperately tried to stop. I would feel so guilty for doing the act and for the things I was thinking during. Afterwards I would plunge into massive depression and guilt.

I felt that if I was redeemable in the slightest to Jehovah I had wrecked my chances of that by sinning so badly. I felt totally disgusting, I had no self worth. Many times I had thought out how I was going to kill myself. I would often be crumpled on my bedroom floor behind my closed door and cry my eyes out till I fell asleep. I would beg Jehovah to help me, I was so scared that he didn't approve of me. But Jehovah never answered my prayers which made me feel worse, to me it was proof that I was disgusting in his eyes. I cant tell you how that can make you feel, I was never, not even from birth, worthy.

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #42

Post by Skeptical »

Also, there's the whole issue of intersex people. But I guess they wouldn't quite fit into the sexual and gender categories that JWs insist upon:
Introduction
Numerous Australian reports have tended to presuppose that intersex people, like gay men, lesbians and transgender people, are included in legal frameworks to protect on the basis of “sexual orientation and gender identity”. This is not the case, and this article attempts to clarify why not.

In brief, people born with intersex variations have many different gender identities; what we share in common is being born with atypical and stigmatised sex characteristics that do not meet stereotypical expectations for men or women. In very many cases, defining intersex as a gender identity misgenders people born with intersex variations: it wrongly treats actual gender identities as invalid or suspect. In some cases, of course, being intersex may also inform an intersex person’s identity.

https://ihra.org.au/17680/intersex-char ... -identity/
Therefore, I supposed that they would miss out of JWs' new system.

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #43

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Skeptical wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:27 pm
... despite not actually engaging in homosexual activity, just because we are gay, we are something that Jehovah apparently detests. ...
This is not part of our beliefs at all. All our official beliefs are on our website, where did Jehovah's Witnesses print that Jehovah detest homosexuals even if they do not engage in homosexual activity ?

Our official position is as follows
... God’s standards apply to all people, whether they have homosexual desires or heterosexual desires. The fact is, everyone must exercise self-restraint when it comes to urges to engage in conduct that displeases God.​—Colossians 3:5.

Does that mean the Bible promotes hatred of gays? No. In fact, the Bible doesn’t promote hatred of anyone​—gay or straight. Rather, it tells us to “pursue peace with all people,” regardless of their lifestyle. (Hebrews 12:14) So it’s wrong to engage in bullying, hate crimes, or any other type of mistreatment of homosexuals


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Are homosexuals condemned for their sexual orientation ? [Mat 5:28]
viewtopic.php?p=1124139#p1124139
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #44

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Skeptical wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:10 pm

Therefore, I supposed that they would miss out of JWs' new system.
No, I don't agree with you at all, I think you are wrong. We Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe someone's gender or sexual orientation automatically bars them from the new system.

ACTS 10:34b, 35

I truly understand that God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him

Regarding Post #41 , there is not sin (apart from that against the holy spirit) that makes a person "unredeemable". The bible teaches that nobody with a good heart is considered "discusting" Him. Its sad that this person didn't understand this.



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Does the bible condemn men merely for having what are considered "effeminate" traits?
viewtopic.php?p=1124098#p1124098

Do transgendered people ever join the Jehovah's Witnesses?
viewtopic.php?p=1124591#p1124591
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #45

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Skeptical wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:27 pm
That JWs prefer echo chambers.
No, in my experience that is not the case.
echo chamber
...2.
an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered

Evidently that is not the case as we go from door-to-door encountering people of all sorts to share with views, beliefs and opinions which often do not coincide with our own. We are taught to really listen and carefully consider what people say to us.




RELATED POSTS

Is it best to get both sides of a story before coming to a conclusion about an issue?
viewtopic.php?p=1124758#p1124758

How can one identify fabricated reports about Jehovah's Witnesses found on the Internet?
viewtopic.php?p=1124758#p1124758
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #46

Post by Skeptical »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2023 2:45 am
Skeptical wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:27 pm
That JWs prefer echo chambers.
No, in my experience that is not the case.
echo chamber
...2.
an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered

Evidently that is not the case as we go from door-to-door encountering people of all sorts to share with views, beliefs and opinions which often do not coincide with our own. We are taught to really listen and carefully consider what people say to us.




RELATED POSTS

Is it best to get both sides of a story before coming to a conclusion about an issue?
viewtopic.php?p=1124758#p1124758

How can one identify fabricated reports about Jehovah's Witnesses found on the Internet?
viewtopic.php?p=1124758#p1124758
I'm through with yours and the other JWs at this forum's Theocratic War Strategy. 😂

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #47

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Skeptical wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:50 pm
I'm through with yours and the other JWs at this forum's Theocratic War Strategy. ....
I respect whatever decision you feel you need to make. It's been fun talking to you. Have a most wonderful and extremely excellent evening.

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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #48

Post by iam1me2023 »

Transsexualism just seems to be a mental disorder - like Anorexia and other forms of self-hate. I’ve known good friends who have transitioned and then transitioned back. Like other mental disorders, people suffering it need our love, respect and encouragement- but we should not be reinforcing the self-hate and self-destructive behavior.

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Re: Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

Post #49

Post by onewithhim »

Skeptical wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:01 am I've enjoyed many of the X-Men movies and one character who I particularly thought was interesting was Kitty Pryde played by Ellen Page.



However, I was completely surprised when I found out that Ellen transitioned into Elliot Page fairly recently in the year 2020. Also, I recently read an article about his past gender dysphoria.
Thinking back to when he was much younger, prior to coming out as transgender, the 36-year-old actor recalled the discomfort that came with his changing body. “My body started to change and clothes sat on me differently,” Page added. “And all of that just was, really was the beginning of really sort of disconnecting from myself and feeling a degree of discomfort that was very erosive and damaging.

Elliot Page on How His Acting Career Impacted His Gender Dysphoria
Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of distress or discomfort because of the difference between a person’s gender (assigned at birth) and their gender identity. This applies to both males who are assigned a female gender at birth and females who were assigned the male gender at birth. People with gender dysphoria are normally transgender...

Dysphoria vs. Dysmorphia
Also, I had always wondered about this and wanted to ask Christians and JWs about this topic. Plus, years ago when I Bible studied with JWs and even went to some of their meetings at one of their Kingdom Halls, I remember seeing a man dressed up as a woman in the audience and standing up and signing JW Kingdom songs along with the rest of JWs, but I thought to myself that he or she must really be trying to change coming to the Kingdom Hall dressed like that.

Therefore, I wanted to ask Christians and JWs: Do trans members ever really change and stop being trans? Also, I am aware of the Bible verses that Christians and JWs use to condemn trans people such as Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 11:14–15, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 where Young's Literal Translation renders that verse as:
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
where the word "effeminate" is translated from the Greek word μαλακοὶ (malakoi), which means, "(a) soft, (b) of persons: soft, delicate, effeminate. Of uncertain affinity; soft." And I guess it's vice versa for masculine women. However, I would like to know other than the Bible saying don't be like this or don't be like that, do Christians or JWs ever wonder about why a person has cross gender identification in the first place? Because it's difficult for me to imagine that a little child who feels this way is being sinister and is trying to sin against God. Because to me, there always seemed to be a lot more to it such as how their brains function. Plus, it seem as if they're being blamed for something that they have no control over:
Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age
I am all for the science. Our DNA tells us what we are, and it doesn't change.

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