What has the Bible to do with reality...

[Waterfall]

Namaskaram...

I think we are in fantasyland when the Bible say a man - Noah - lived for 950 years. Why do anybody think it is not just fantasy? Maybe a muslim can help? Do you buy this solution...



Your friend forever

Waterfall

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #10]

Waterfall's problem is likely that he has been told the Bible is nonsense.

Your problem is lack of faith.

Eternity is in our hearts.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #10]

Waterfall's problem is likely that he has been told the Bible is nonsense.

Your problem is lack of faith.

Eternity is in our hearts.

Not a problem for me It hath been spoken that i don't need more Faith, but you need less, and a bit more logic and evidence. And fewer Falithclaim slogans.

As for our pal waterfall, if the advice is that the Bible is nonsense, I can explain why.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to Wootah in post #11]

Namaskaram Wootah

Let us look at this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life

The tree of life first appears in Genesis 2:9 and 3:22-24 as the source of eternal life in the Garden of Eden, from which access is revoked when man is driven from the garden.

Did Adam and Eve have access to eternal life? Did their children have access to eternal life? Do we have access to eternal life? The story says no...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Wootah in post #11]

Namaskaram Wootah

Let us look at this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life

The tree of life first appears in Genesis 2:9 and 3:22-24 as the source of eternal life in the Garden of Eden, from which access is revoked when man is driven from the garden.

Did Adam and Eve have access to eternal life? Did their children have access to eternal life? Do we have access to eternal life? The story says no...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

The story say yes, but they blew it, but if we get Right with God, we can get it back, either on this earth or in an afterlife.

Is that about right Wootah?

[Waterfall]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

[Replying to Wootah in post #11]

Namaskaram Wootah

Let us look at this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life

The tree of life first appears in Genesis 2:9 and 3:22-24 as the source of eternal life in the Garden of Eden, from which access is revoked when man is driven from the garden.

Did Adam and Eve have access to eternal life? Did their children have access to eternal life? Do we have access to eternal life? The story says no...

Your friend forever

Waterfall

The story say yes, but they blew it, but if we get Right with God, we can get it back, either on this earth or in an afterlife.

Is that about right Wootah?

I was just saying/thinking that they did not have access to eternal life AFTER they were driven from the garden. But interesting question...Wootah?

Your friend forever

Waterfall

[Wootah]

Waterfall,

I am going to be upfront that I am doubtful you are able to engage in the conversation reasonably. I have experienced your type of debater before. I feel like there are cultural barriers when talking to a Hindu. I just want to get my bias out of the way.


My first post demonstrated a beginning connection to reality right from genesis. Do you acknowledge that? Can you reply with words that engage with my words and demonstrate you can see my point of view and agree or rebut it? Were you surprised by it? Maybe what I said was enough for you to think on it for a while. Take it easy, approach the Bible as if it is meant to be understood and then try to find the meaning. There is a lot of propaganda out there.

Now that second tree represents listening to wisdom, to our elders, to our teachers, to those who know. How many times do I still not read the user manual before trying to use something? The Bible is imminently practical. If we listen and obey then we would have been taught how to master the thing and how to be the master/the king of the thing (the garden). But instead, we hate listening to others in general and want to be right by our will alone.

Now more reality-based stuff. Sin. I went to the orchestra recently and watched 50+ people who have worked their entire lives to master to be king of their instruments and remove all imperfections from the playing of their instruments and then who got together and mastered removing all sin and imperfection from their group to play the songs. We literally in reality live that way trying to remove sin from our lives.

Whether in the Bible story or just in life we all get to participate in the original problem Adam faced and we all fail, we all die. The Old Testament is basically the history of God's redemption plan in action as you watch man after man fail to be the one that can successfully rule the garden until Jesus. He listened and his reward according to the Bible was to be the rightful King.

It's the most based and in-reality book you will read.

--

Now who says that we don't have access to eternal life after being expelled from the garden? God in the Bible is fairly explicit that he will redeem His children. Jesus's in-reality resurrection shows there is life after death and those in Him will experience it.

--

Also on the in-reality stuff. I personally found myself at my late 20s in a place of failure and not seeing a way forward. Jesus says blessed are the poor in spirit because often times in our arrogance we never find God but when we fail in life we finally can't avoid the truth of ourselves. And about that time I found God and found grace and mercy for me and that allowed me to slowly put my life back together. Now this is personal testimony but I can vouch for the in reality improvements in life that have happened after humbling myself to God and living His way and not my way.

I personally think that until you understand grace you will never understand the love of God. Know thyself.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Wootah in post #16]

If our pal does not come back on this, three points - yes, the Bible is based on reality - the condition of humans and a bit of middle eastern history. But it is not to be trusted or relied upon.

Second..hang on..damn' my memory.. Oh yes, the "I was in the gutter...until I found Jesus" apologetic. We are all cheering and party popping streamers that you got your life together with religious Faith, but that doesn't make it true, as I have no doubt that the same happens with other religions.

Finally, the self -serving ploy that one has to have the Faithbased mindset to 'understand'. From what I have seen ever since I began having discussions with the believers, one has to have Faith to keep believing the Lie, even in the face of compelling evidence that it is wrong, immoral and makes no sense.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #17]

On the last point. That can be true.

But the parable of the unforgiving servant comes to mind.

Who can claim they have been forgiven a huge debt? Not many can relate to that story to know if it is pop psychology.

Is it a lie? I honestly don't know if that is a good atheist attack point. At worst everyone is lying to themselves most of the time. Is your lie working for you is the better question?

What a shame to not try.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to Wootah in post #16]

Namaskaram Wootah

I am not a Hindu I just think there is life after death and reincarnation and that this book is better than the Bible...

Why have Jesus' simple love teachings been lost in the Christian religions?

First and foremost because man lives in a world that is darkened by the impermanent. Many people only believe what they see and experience on a daily basis. What really binds us together, the spiritual reality, we learn nothing about, even though this was Jesus' main message; the love of and from God, the love of our fellow men! It is a spiritual reality that we can also experience here in the face of our fellow human beings.
The external worship became more important than the internal. How and when we pray became more important than the meeting itself in a spiritual community. Because we do not need a church building to turn to God, We do not need priests who don't know the truth, but stand and repeat centuries of lies about God who sacrificed his son to save the rest of us from perdition. Those who still believe in these fairy tales that the church's false servants tell about God and the life of Jesus, are deceived and allow themselves to be deceived and are brainwashed to believe that they themselves are not responsible for everything they do! Yes, what father allows one of his children to suffer for what the other children do!
The churches and religions exist to have power over man, not to tell truths about our spiritual reality. But these truths are available to anyone who seeks with an honest desire to understand the context of why man lives in this world of suffering in a physical mortal body.
The church and religions have out played their role for enlightened people who seek the truth outside the domain of fairy tales and superstition.
Jesus' second coming has happened, his speech to humanity is found in the message "Toward the Light!" and everyone who honestly seeks answers to why man lives here on Earth, yes, why earthly life behaves as it does, will find the truth there!
https://vandrer-mod-lyset.dk/e-boeger/#page-content

Your first post did not make any sense to me. The tree of life in the Bible has to do with eternal life. It has nothing to do with feeding your children, so they do not die very fast. You and your children are going to die and there is nothing you can do about it because you do not have access to the tree of life. You cant eat from it. That is what the story is telling us...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life

The tree of life first appears in Genesis 2:9 and 3:22-24 as the source of eternal life in the Garden of Eden, from which access is revoked when man is driven from the garden.

Why not listen to this...

Come back my soul,
How much longer will
You linger in the garden of deceit?
I have sent you a hundred messages
I have shown you a hundred ways
Either you never read them
Or you ignore my advice.
Come back my soul, do not waste
Time with the cold-hearted
They do not know your worth.
Why do you seek water When you are the stream?
Have you forgotten?
You are the king's falcon,
You are a ray of the Beloved,
A divine wonder!
Rumi

I do find inspiration in the Bible too. But let us be real. Noah has never lived and there has not been a worldwide flood. It is just fantasyland. To them (ancient people) it was good stories. Now we know better. They tried to explain and understand life. For that I give them credit. And I will not say it is all rubbish. That would not be true. As to Jesus. He is my brother and nothing more. He was born in evil times and had to live his life the best way he could and try to change peoples mind and make them love God (the real God) and each other. Did he succeed? Did he change anything? What do you think? I am capable of loving God and have learned not to sin, but that is just me What about the rest of humanity? Many of them are still like children. Not grownups and responsible. For inspiration...



Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #17]

On the last point. That can be true.

But the parable of the unforgiving servant comes to mind.

Who can claim they have been forgiven a huge debt? Not many can relate to that story to know if it is pop psychology.

Is it a lie? I honestly don't know if that is a good atheist attack point. At worst everyone is lying to themselves most of the time. Is your lie working for you is the better question?

What a shame to not try.

I hardly understand this. Is this claiming that a god has forgiven us some debt (which I fail to see was ever incurred) and if that claim is not true it would do us good to believe it (the "we need it, true or not" apologetic) and we ought to try.

Why? Haven't we tried the religious claim for 4 thousand years and in fact thew world has gotten better the more religion has been pushed back and we have used human resources and methods. Even when religion tried to take the credit.