Please prove that souls exist and that they are either resurrected or reincarnated

[Compassionist]

Most religions claim that souls exist. Some religions claim that souls are immortal and are reincarnated after the death of the body while other religions claim that souls are immortal and are resurrected after the death of the body. Can anyone please prove that souls exist and are either resurrected or reincarnated? Thank you.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #449]

There exists:
1. Matter.
2. Things that occur because of the properties of Matter.

You appear to be arguing that 1 is different from 2. Is that correct?

If so, are those "things" re 2, not matter - not made up of matter?

If not, what are they made up of, that they should even be called "things", even that the "thing" calling them "things" is also not a "thing"?

No. Perhaps "things" was a poor choice of words. Let's call them phenomenon.

Jello can be a cube or a sphere. It can also jiggle. Jiggling isn't a new form of non-Matter. It's the definition of what the Matter is doing.

That's consciousness.

Consciousness is how we define what the Brain does. It's a Brain phenomenon.
"The Mind is what the Brain does," Marvin Minsky.

Consciousness or Minds aren't a phenomenon of other forms of Matter - unless you want to argue computers, which would be an interesting discussion.

[William]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #451]

If so, are those "things" re 2, not matter - not made up of matter?

If not, what are they made up of, that they should even be called "things", even that the "thing" calling them "things" is also not a "thing"?

Perhaps "things" was a poor choice of words. Let's call them phenomenon.

So your list now reads:

1. Matter.
2. Phenomenon occur because of the properties of Matter.

You appear to be arguing that 1 is different from 2. Is that correct?

If so, are those phenomena re 2, not matter - not made up of matter?

Jello can be a cube or a sphere. It can also jiggle. Jiggling isn't a new form of non-Matter. It's the definition of what the Matter is doing.

That's consciousness.

So, like Jello, consciousness is made of matter? Yet other words you use appear to be saying consciousness is not made of matter.

Consciousness is how we define what the Brain does. It's a Brain phenomenon.
"The Mind is what the Brain does," Marvin Minsky.

Until you correct me, I will assume you are arguing that consciousness is not made of matter.

Since a brain is made of matter, this would constitute a claim that matter can create non-matter. How is that any different from the claim that non-matter can create matter?

Why have one claim regarded as true and the other as false?

Consciousness or Minds aren't a phenomenon of other forms of Matter - unless you want to argue computers, which would be an interesting discussion.

Why stop at computers? The planet is also a form of matter, and I argue that the planet is also conscious. Certainly more obviously mindful than any computer we know about, given what it has achieved to date - and was achieving even long before human forms were developed.

[boatsnguitars]

I've tried my best. If you wish, you can Google Materialism and see what I'm talking about.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #1]

It's faith but I strongly urge you to consider this.

If you have no soul and you are a lump of matter then you don't matter and I am told we are worth about 5 bucks materials.

If however you are made in the image of God and God loved you so much and valued you enough to die for you then you must be of value.

I think if you lose your soul you do indeed become worthless. Never let them take your soul. Ironically it seems the world is on offer if you will just give up your soul because the world is something that you can't hold onto.

Hold onto your soul with your life.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to William in post #452]

I'll try one more time with a series of analogies:
A block of wood, painted red: Is the color red something different from the object?

A block of steel: is it's color a different property than the the steel?

A prism: are the resulting colors different than the material?

Or, are those emergent properties of the material that can't exist without the material?

As for your Avatar argument: Planets don't have consciousness. Prove me wrong, win a Nobel Prize.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #1]

It's faith but I strongly urge you to consider this.

If you have no soul and you are a lump of matter then you don't matter and I am told we are worth about 5 bucks materials.

If however you are made in the image of God and God loved you so much and valued you enough to die for you then you must be of value.

I think if you lose your soul you do indeed become worthless. Never let them take your soul. Ironically it seems the world is on offer if you will just give up your soul because the world is something that you can't hold onto.

Humans have value without this religiously invented soul idea.
Shame on you for suggesting otherwise! I imagine Jesus would be rolling in his grave if he were to hear you spout such divisive words.

Hold onto your soul with your life.

Please be specific and inform us all just how a person hold on to a soul. It's starting to smell in this thread....

[William]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #455]

The examples you give as analogies show me that yes - consciousness is made of matter.

Also, I have given good reason why the planet could well have a mind. What reasons do you have which allow you to claim that it doesn't?

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #455]

The examples you give as analogies show me that yes - consciousness is made of matter.

Also, I have given good reason why the planet could well have a mind. What reasons do you have which allow you to claim that it doesn't?

I don't think you've given a good reason. I see no evidence, and philosophical speculation isn't good enough.

I'm not opposed to the idea, in general. It would be cool, but let's be clear: there is no serious science even spending a penny on this, and that alone should give you pause.

I mean, there are billions spent for religious purposes and that's pure bunk. So, to spend no money (or very little) is a pretty loud condemnation.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #1]

It's faith but I strongly urge you to consider this.

If you have no soul and you are a lump of matter then you don't matter and I am told we are worth about 5 bucks materials.

If however you are made in the image of God and God loved you so much and valued you enough to die for you then you must be of value.

I think if you lose your soul you do indeed become worthless. Never let them take your soul. Ironically it seems the world is on offer if you will just give up your soul because the world is something that you can't hold onto.

Humans have value without this religiously invented soul idea.
Shame on you for suggesting otherwise! I imagine Jesus would be rolling in his grave if he were to hear you spout such divisive words.

Hold onto your soul with your life.

Please be specific and inform us all just how a person hold on to a soul. It's starting to smell in this thread....

I think the way humans treat each other across time negates your claim that humans have value.

Jesus literally said

https://biblehub.com/matthew/16-26.htm

What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

[Clownboat]

I think the way humans treat each other across time negates your claim that humans have value.

I don't care what you think, humans are sentient beings and I see that as valuable.
I don't find any merit in your claim and quite frankly, see it as a pathway to commit evils. I hope you will begin to see the value in being human someday.

Jesus literally said

Jesus didn't even write anything down, much less can we know what words he may have 'literally' said. Come on now!

What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?

They will have gained the world and lost nothing so it seems.

Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

Something to drink!
Sell Your Soul and Join The Liquid Death Country Club
https://liquiddeath.com/pages/sell-your-soul

Apart from that, no one can show anything that can be exchanged for a soul, which makes the question quite odd.