I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
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I wish people were more willing to discuss it. I'm on the Left, and my position is that if we want to continue to use sports to exalt people who simply won the genetic lottery, the fact that sports is not fair should be celebrated. So the fact that one player on the field is endowed with a massive genetic advantage to the point that she's hurting others, is just par for the course. In this society, it seems we should cheer this exceptional athlete. (But there shouldn't be "women's" sports in the first place. Everyone should compete on the same playing field, and you will get all or mostly biological males, just like in basketball, you get a lot of Blacks and almost no Asians.)Clownboat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:24 am This is an honest question, a real issue and I would like to point out that it has absolutely nothing to do with any Nazi's or wings whether right or left.
Can we discuss it, or would you prefer to continue wondering what names you can call people? If the later, I'm not sure what can be accomplished.
In other words, let's just eliminate sport for women. Same goes for children in that case. Physical activity is essential for a healthy balanced life. People enjoy getting together with like-minded others and engaging in team competition at all levels. Most of the world finds some form of sport entertaining and are more than willing to reward those at the top of their game for the entertainment they provide.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:25 pm Everyone should compete on the same playing field, and you will get all or mostly biological males, just like in basketball, you get a lot of Blacks and almost no Asians.)
The genetic lottery applies to everything as far as living things go. Evolution is not about being fair. We get dealt our cards and we make the most of what we get. Everything is worth whatever people are prepared to pay for it.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:25 pm However, I always found it unfair that if you win the genetic lottery by getting a high intelligence, your gifts are to be used for others and come with obligations, not privileges, and it is assumed that you should transfer resources to others. But when your gift is athletic ability, you exist for people to adore you and transfer resources to you for being better than them, despite the fact that you don't improve their lives and may even be making those lives worse.
As I said, every attribute is part of the genetic lottery and you can't change it. People are born into wealthy families and have an advantage from the get go. People get beautiful voices, stunning beauty, extreme intelligence, while others get everything at the other end of the stick. Societies have established themselves around such facts of nature. We will never create the ideal where everyone is completely satisfied. We just try, hopefully, to be fair.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:25 pm I never liked this world of exalting people who win the genetic lottery of athletic ability, praising and adulating them for nothing they have done but for simply being born with the right genes, and pretending, because we live in a false workocracy, that they came by their trophies by hard work, anyone could have done the same, there are no biological disadvantages, and the hard work is what we're putting them on a pedestal for.
The question is whether society should cheer for and embrace that reality, or work against it, to make the world more fair. Murder is also part of nature. But we've decided that it's awful enough that policy should drive the force of society against it. If we had evolved from lions, or bears, one of the first items on the agenda of building society would be to stop males from killing cubs. It would have to be. And if we can't do that, then we can't have a society.
If what we see in the video becomes the norm, we will eventually have men's rugby, women's rugby and biological women's rugby. If not, biological men playing women's rugby will dominate, leaving little room for biological females to compete in the sport.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 3:39 pm I tend not to watch videos, but if the person was wrong, they are wrong. However, if they are right, they are right.
We can't know the specific context, we can't know the back story. Maybe whatever happened was justified. Maybe not.
But, one anecdote doesn't sum up an entire issue.
Is that fair?
This applies to females then. If we shouldn't have reasoned matchmaking so everyone can be an asset to their team, then it's just too bad if you're born female, or born with a disability.brunumb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:55 pm [Replying to Purple Knight in post #44]
What good is a system where attempting to be fair to a few individuals results in being unfair to a multitude of other individuals? The only ultimately 'fair' system would be where everyone just competes against themselves and always wins. Everyone obviously succeeds at their own level. Giving everyone a medal just for competing achieves nothing and just diminishes any value that comes from competition. Participation in sports and competitions gives much joy and happiness to countless people. Even if one is not gifted enough for a given arena, there are thousands of others to choose from. Trying to manipulate the rules and procedures just to allow in someone who otherwise should not belong is not the way to go.
That is a very good point. We can either protect people of lesser innate athletic ability from the competition of those they have no chance against, or not.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:07 pm I'll remind you, some people are born with natural advantages. That's why many people don't make it to the Big Leagues. Should we ban Black people (again) because of their natural abilities? Or, people like Phelps who have abnormally shaped bodies and brains specifically suited to be a great swimmer?
Are you now saying that a certain group of people is endowed with special abilities because of their skin colour? Does the same apply to people born with different genitalia, physiology and hormonal make up?boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:07 pm Should we ban Black people (again) because of their natural abilities?