For Debate: The Bible looks to suggest that God decides who shall become inexorably drawn to him. If this is the case, then it matters not what we do or think, as we are already pre-selected without our own will to do anything to change it. Oh, and BTW, per Romans 9, do not question God's action(s) either. Does this seem like a reasonable and worthy God? I guess the question is irrelevant? Why? If you do or do not deem God reasonable or worthy is irrelevant, as this is already how God decided to make you feel anyways.
Or, is this passage taken completely out of context? If so, please enlighten all of us?
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Reference:
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? -- Romans 9
Who's Choosing Who?
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POI
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Who's Choosing Who?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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POI
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Re: Who's Choosing Who?
Post #61I think it is good to notice, the Bible doesn't say it happened by conditions.
You see how this works 1213? Moving forward, let's recap our exchange. You would have a case IF "God" or "The Lord" did not take direct credit for hardening hearts. But He does! Thus, give credit where credit is due. You can keep trying to wiggle out of it, because the Bible does not explicitly say 'mind control' in either chapter. However, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you want to play this game, then these Bible chapters do not say 'conditions' either.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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TRANSPONDER
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Re: Who's Choosing Who?
Post #62I would say I can't get over the double standards, where it would never be allowed for me to say that the resurrection didn't happen unless it is explained exactly how God did it, never mind abiogenesis being dismissed as a possibility even though it can be explained how it could have happened, were it not that we know why Bible -apologetics works this way. With the Parthian shot of "Sorry" which being interepreted meaneth "I win that last point, and the discussion is now closed with a win for me."
The Bible is taken as true, reliable and correct, and anything that disagrees, whether it's a conclusion teased out of complicated evidence or what the Bible says in plain print, is dismissed as either opinion, 'It doesn't mean that' or trickery in fact like 'It does say so' or 'if it does say so you have to explain something' or referring back to some supposedly unanswered points... and one has to swallow the disrespect (at least) and trust that some believers with at least a little ability to reason looks on with horror and wonder "Is that what I sound like when I do Bible apologetics?"
The Bible is taken as true, reliable and correct, and anything that disagrees, whether it's a conclusion teased out of complicated evidence or what the Bible says in plain print, is dismissed as either opinion, 'It doesn't mean that' or trickery in fact like 'It does say so' or 'if it does say so you have to explain something' or referring back to some supposedly unanswered points... and one has to swallow the disrespect (at least) and trust that some believers with at least a little ability to reason looks on with horror and wonder "Is that what I sound like when I do Bible apologetics?"
