Should misinformation be banned from the major platforms?

[Daedalus X]

For this topic misinformation is any information that promotes needle hesitancy or anti authoritarian approved information.

Here is an example of misinformation that can't be posted to YouTube, twitter, Facebook or any mainline medium. Is this good public policy?



This is a MUST WATCH.

https://www.therealanthonyfaucimovie.com/viewing/

[brunumb]

Oh Dear........! Prejudices and bigotries about LGBT people....how very sad.
We have got a Carolina Drake Duck that is gay, or maybe transgender; during some years it will scratch a depression, gather up golf balls that happen to be laying about to then push into the depression and then sit the 'nest' for about a month before leaving it all, and it has no interest in treading its mate (who then seeks the affections of a mandarin drake).

Nature is full of LGBT lives, and we need to walk in to a world free of hated and bigotry such as some extreme Christianity can show.

You are way off base. This is not about hatred or bigotry at all, and as far as I am concerned religion is not even relevant. I bear no animosity towards any people on the basis of their gender or sexual preferences. Why is it so hard to comprehend that one can be opposed to sexualising children and jumping in head first with chemical and medical procedures at the first sign of any non-stereotypical behaviour. It's weird that we tried for ages to overcome the notion that boys should always do traditionally masculine things and girls should always do traditionally feminine things, and now, as soon as they do the opposite, they are obviously the wrong sex. Crazy. It's only true for a tiny percentage of the population. People are being brainwashed and subsequently indoctrinating children into this misguided thinking.

[boatsnguitars]

As for "not natural" - that's not true. Androgyny, Intersex, Gay, etc. have always been a part of our world. Some cultures have celebrated them. You simply are locked into rigid thinking that your cultural upbringing is the norm and theirs isn't. This is the Conservative mindset: you presume the Status Quo is the way it ought to be.

You misrepresent what I said:
"What is happening with all this gender ideology is not natural. Ordinary people seem to be going along with the idea that it is necessary to indoctrinate kids with all sorts of sexual ideas well before it is necessary or appropriate. Kink seems to have risen to the surface. "

Either way, it sounds perfectly natural. Seems exactly what humans do - whether you think it's irrational or not. People used to watch beheadings for entertainment, or watch horses dive into pools of water....
Obviously, however, I believe there is merit to it.

What is not natural is the notion that sex is not binary and that one can simply change from one sex to another. The science is in on that! Gender fluidity and being non-binary make no sense at all and the ideas are being promoted by people who have simply jumped on the gender ideology bandwagon and are spouting meaningless jargon. Aggressive activists have made headway through fear and intimidation, not through reasoned argument. Transitioning minors is equivalent to child abuse and is not what gender affirming care should involve. People may believe that they are being kind and thoughtful, but in the long run it will be the worst thing they could have done.

I disagree, as do many scientists. you can keep digging your heels in, but I think we are at the beginning of the conversation that will take generations to works through.

The ultimate step in gender-affirming medical treatment is surgery, which is uncommon in patients under age 18. Some children’s hospitals and gender clinics don’t offer surgery to minors, requiring that they be adults before deciding on procedures that are irreversible and carry a heightened risk of complications.

The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... outh-data/

I think you are making a big deal out about something the Right Wing has decided is their new wedge issue. They lost on womens vote, black vote, many Civil Rights issues, blacks int he military, women in the military, Homosexuality not being illegal, gay marriage, etc... They have run out of issues involving genitalia, so this is their last gasp. After all, once society decides on how they feel about it and the laws are settled - what else can the Right use as a moral cudgel against sex related topics? Maybe they go back to the beginning and convince women to be subservient, barefoot and pregnant?

It certainly is an issue that the Right Wing loves to get their fingers into as it checks all the boxes:
Involves Children
Involves Sex
Involves Sexual repression and oppression
Involves the specter of homosexuality
Involves the ability to opine on a scientific matter than is none of their business
Involves the ability to sum it up in Bronze Age, binary thinking "Man is man, woman is woman, that's all"
Involves the ignorance (forced or otherwise) of exceptions to the rule (Intersex people, etc.)
Involves the ability to use the State as a way to control private citizens

[oldbadger]

You are way off base. This is not about hatred or bigotry at all, and as far as I am concerned religion is not even relevant. I bear no animosity towards any people on the basis of their gender or sexual preferences. Why is it so hard to comprehend that one can be opposed to sexualising children and jumping in head first with chemical and medical procedures at the first sign of any non-stereotypical behaviour.

Children? Now what age/s do you want to discuss?
Where I live a child can marry, indeed can enjoy sex without marrying, come to think of it....... that's absolutely true, you know.
So let's peg the age of your child who is going to be subjected to chemical procedures, and let's hear what these exact chemical procedures are. You'd better show me a real example as well.

It's weird that we tried for ages to overcome the notion that boys should always do traditionally masculine things and girls should always do traditionally feminine things, and now, as soon as they do the opposite, they are obviously the wrong sex. Crazy.

Oh no. I remember those times of total gender separation with haircuts, hair partings, clothes rules, colours, bicycle rules, the whole sick culture that led our women in to restricted jobs and lifestyles......... dreadful.

Tomorrow I will be watching the womens' world cup football final, our Lionesses have made it to that final and we are so proud of them, you know.
Children should be free to be themselves.

It's only true for a tiny percentage of the population. People are being brainwashed and subsequently indoctrinating children into this misguided thinking.

No. It is for the whole population, a whole new way of thinking for the reduction of bigotry and bullying.

You say its not about hatred, but bigotry and prejudice about LGBT folks IS hatred....... absolutely.

Now let's hear more about 'children being subjected to chemicals' in detail, please.

[brunumb]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #352]

I don't know why politics keeps rearing its ugly head. Political sides should not matter. So many of the people I have listened to have no issue with gay people but make a very strong case against the gender ideology that is capturing the young in particular. The activists are not giving any opportunity for debate or discussion. Ironically, they are behaving as the fascists they accuse their opposition of being. They have no valid case. As soon as they do engage they are shot down with facts and logic so the only way for them to proceed is to intimidate and shut down any discourse.

Peter Boghossian has two gay children himself and is a staunch supporter of gay and trans people. He has quite a few videos discussing discussing the issue and his street epistemology clips are an excellent example of how to do it and how the opposition reacts.

Try this recent discussion.
The Reality of Gender Affirming Care | Peter Boghossian & Stephanie Winn



Just out:

[boatsnguitars]

You are way off base. This is not about hatred or bigotry at all, and as far as I am concerned religion is not even relevant. I bear no animosity towards any people on the basis of their gender or sexual preferences. Why is it so hard to comprehend that one can be opposed to sexualising children and jumping in head first with chemical and medical procedures at the first sign of any non-stereotypical behaviour.

This is a total mischaracterization of the actual facts.
Younger children are given puberty blockers in rare cases. In the most rare and exceptional cases surgery may be recommended, but this is a call that the parents and doctors make together.

The impression you give is that Johnny wants to be Jenny one day and so they head to the All-Night Sex Change Depot in Vegas.

You make it seem like the doctors and parents don't care about the child's well-being; that they just want to stick a thumb in the eye of traditional values.

Let me ask you: How many people do you personally know who have had gender surgery? Have you read any of the stories of people who have had it? How fair have you been in trying to see the other side?

Challenge to you: Post one testimonial from a person who has had gender reconstruction. Find the most sympathetic case. Then, you can post all the others, but I think it fair that you appear to be open to the other side of the issue.

[brunumb]

This is a total mischaracterization of the actual facts.
Younger children are given puberty blockers in rare cases. In the most rare and exceptional cases surgery may be recommended, but this is a call that the parents and doctors make together.

Actually, you seem to be the one with fingers in their ears going "La, la, la, la, la".
The internet has loads of cases where young people are put on the puberty blockers treadmill and any attempt to prevent it is met with a decidedly hostile response. There are testimonials from de-transitioners explaining how they were even encouraged to play the suicide card if they encountered resistance to their wishes. I don't care that adults maintain the desire to mutilate their bodies to meet some unrealistic vision of changing their sex, but all gender affirming care with minors should only involve counseling as far as possible. Do no harm.

[boatsnguitars]

This is a total mischaracterization of the actual facts.
Younger children are given puberty blockers in rare cases. In the most rare and exceptional cases surgery may be recommended, but this is a call that the parents and doctors make together.

Actually, you seem to be the one with fingers in their ears going "La, la, la, la, la".
The internet has loads of cases where young people are put on the puberty blockers treadmill and any attempt to prevent it is met with a decidedly hostile response. There are testimonials from de-transitioners explaining how they were even encouraged to play the suicide card if they encountered resistance to their wishes. I don't care that adults maintain the desire to mutilate their bodies to meet some unrealistic vision of changing their sex, but all gender affirming care with minors should only involve counseling as far as possible. Do no harm.

I don't think those are the rule, and it's certainly not what Trans advocates would say is the way to go forward. i don't see the value in mentioning a few exceptional cases as if it defines the entire debate. Yes, there are extremists, and bad actors.

What I hear you say is, "Hey, what about the cases where people do bad things!?"
I agree, people shouldn't do bad things. That's true for everything.

I simply don't see what this has to do with the actual discussion. For example, people shouldn't pretend to be doctors and operate on people. Yet, it happens. That doesn't have anything to do with people becoming doctors, or the validity of hospitals, etc.

If there is a legitimate case where a child ought to be put on a puberty blocker, or even get surgery, then it is legitimate. And they shouldn't be stopped because of someone who abuses the system. Would you agree?

It's as if we are arguing about speed limits and you keep arguing that people speed - therefore, don't let anyone have a car.

[brunumb]

I don't think those are the rule, and it's certainly not what Trans advocates would say is the way to go forward. i don't see the value in mentioning a few exceptional cases as if it defines the entire debate. Yes, there are extremists, and bad actors.

The more you look into it the more you find that genuine issues involving supposedly transgender children are the exception. Gender ideology has gone way beyond just recognising and acknowledging transgender people. When one has to disavow science and reality in order to somehow validate transgenderism, something is seriously wrong.

This quote somehow feels apt even in this discussion.

Another example of Christians gaslighting people. Up is down, experts aren't experts - non-experts are experts, right is wrong, left is right, weak is strong, the meek shall inherit, wise isn't wise, etc. It's the perfect religion for people who want to remain ignorant but feel their ignorance is a feature not a bug.

[oldbadger]

The more you look into it the more you find that genuine issues involving supposedly transgender children are the exception. Gender ideology has gone way beyond just recognising and acknowledging transgender people. When one has to disavow science and reality in order to somehow validate transgenderism, something is seriously wrong.

How far do you go in recognising and acknowledging transgender people?

Do you acknowledge any transgender people?

[boatsnguitars]

I don't think those are the rule, and it's certainly not what Trans advocates would say is the way to go forward. i don't see the value in mentioning a few exceptional cases as if it defines the entire debate. Yes, there are extremists, and bad actors.

The more you look into it the more you find that genuine issues involving supposedly transgender children are the exception. Gender ideology has gone way beyond just recognising and acknowledging transgender people. When one has to disavow science and reality in order to somehow validate transgenderism, something is seriously wrong.

This quote somehow feels apt even in this discussion.

Another example of Christians gaslighting people. Up is down, experts aren't experts - non-experts are experts, right is wrong, left is right, weak is strong, the meek shall inherit, wise isn't wise, etc. It's the perfect religion for people who want to remain ignorant but feel their ignorance is a feature not a bug.

I still think you are bringing up exceptional cases and not the meat of the discussion. You'd have to prove to me that the exceptions are the hidden agenda, or whatever it is you believe.

To clarify:
Do you agree there are legitimate issue surrounding Trans people, even legitimate cases it is deemed best children have surgery?
Do you agree there are cases where gender at birth is truly at odds with a person's self-identity that can be either aided with surgery, or that another gender category best defines them?
Do you agree there are exceptions to "man v woman", the make up of x and y chromosomes, the expressions of genes, hormones, etc. that can lead to some people falling outside of the traditional Masculine vs Feminine columns?

If "no" to any of these we have a profound disagreement.