Athetotheist wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:35 pm
know those principles?
I already said I know them.
otseng wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:47 am
Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:27 am
If it's relevant to you, you should be able to identify them.
Of course I'm able to.
It's not more likely that I'm wrong, because anyone can see the discrepancies between what Jesus says and what the law of Moses says. All it takes is looking at them together.
How can it be clearly seen it if you're the first to see it? Doesn't make any sense.
Do humans normally look like they've been crowned with thorns, scourged, crucified, and pierced in side?
Humans can go through all that and still appear human.
I don't think the passage either means to take it in a hyperliteral way and say he's no longer human looking. Not everything in the Bible has to be taken in a literalistic way.
Here are additional translations of Isa 52:14:
To the amazement of all.'Though men will despise his appearance, And his glory will be hated by sons of men;
In which manner [²shall be amazed ³by ⁴you ¹many], so [⁴shall be despised ⁵by ⁶men ¹the ²sight ³of your appearance], and your glory by the sons of men.
Many people will be surprised by him because he will look very different from other people. He will have lots of scars and bruises, and his body will be very different from other people's bodies.
As many rejected thee, in such manner was his likeness and his beauty, disfigured from the sons of men:
As many shall be amazed at thee, so shall thy face be without glory from men, and thy glory shall not be honoured by the sons of men.
Now, all of a sudden, you're hung up on mechanism.
No, I don't claim I know the mechanism for how the Bible was inspired either. But if you're going to claim God-breathed must imply some sort of requirement of inerrancy, then you'll need to be specific what does God-breathed means.
There's no contradiction here. Jeremiah focuses on the Jews, Isaiah brings the Gentiles into the focus
The contradiction is in your statements about who is forgiven in Jer 31.
At one point you say non-Jews are forgiven:
Athetotheist wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:35 pm
As I have repeatedly pointed out, Jeremiah is not saying that "only" the Jews are to have their sins forgiven.
Then you state only the Jews are being referred to:
Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:40 pm
It would make more sense if the "all" and "their" referred to the same thing.
referring to the same thing. It's saying that all Israel will know Jehovah, and that he will remember their (Israel's) sin no more. You seem to be confusing Jeremiah's reference to Israel and Isaiah's reference to the nations.
If God is going to rescue a puppy and a kitten, and God tells Isaiah about the puppy and tells Jeremiah about the kitten, and each prophet relays what he respectively has been told, are they contradicting each other?
A straight forward interpretation doesn't need to introduce a separate puppy and kitten and then fuse them together.
[Isa 53:5 KJV] 5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[Jer 31:34 KJV] 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
These passages are referring to all those who trust in Jesus. Our transgressions and iniquities was placed on Jesus and their sins have been forgiven.
That he didn't obtain the "more excellent ministry" while he was on earth, but after death.
Jesus came down to earth. And he was the atoning lamb, so he died for our sins. So, don't really see the issue here.
According to the Jewish Bible, the Gentiles must have some way of knowing:
Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. (Zechariah 8:23)
And what is that some way? Most likely, some Jewish rabbi would have to teach and proclaim this to the Gentile world.
As Romans says:
[Rom 10:14-15 KJV] 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
That's why I wrote, "The messianic utopia beginning and the Jewish Messiah arriving." That would fit with a redeemer coming to those who turn from iniquity in Jacob, rather than turning them.
Is there any Jewish person that has this view?
If it's completely novel, it would be good to be able to explain that.
It might be good, but it isn't necessary.
Nothing is necessary. But it would give greater weight to your arguments if it can be presented.