Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

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Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

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Post by boatsnguitars »

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The mystery of the sailing stones
Located on the border of California and Nevada, Death Valley National Park was designated in 1933, and is home to one of the world's strangest phenomena: rocks that move along the desert ground with no gravitational cause. Known as "sailing stones," the rocks vary in size from a few ounces to hundreds of pounds. Though no one has ever seen them actually move in person, the trails left behind the stones and periodic changes in their location make it clear that they do.

The rocks of Racetrack Playa are composed of dolomite and syenite, the same materials that make up the surrounding mountains. They tumble down due to the forces of erosion, coming to rest on the parched ground below. Once they reach the level surface of the playa, the rocks somehow move horizontally, leaving perfect tracks behind them to record their path.

Many of the largest rocks have left behind trails as long as 1,500 feet, suggesting that they've moved a long way indeed from their original location. Rocks with a rough-bottomed surface leave straight tracks, while smooth-bottomed rocks tend to wander. The sailing stones have been observed and studied since the early 1900s, and several theories have been suggested to explain their mysterious movements.
"Proposed explanations run the gamut from natural to paranormal to alien. Strange magnetic forces, psychic energy, alien spacecraft, teenage pranksters, and even transdimensional vortices have all been proposed. "

Theist explanation:
Supernatural forces exist. God is revealing Himself to us. God is moving them.
The wonder this phenomenon instills likewise reminds us of the majesty and power of the Invisible Intelligence (cf. Romans 1.20), creating the very physics making moving rocks possible.

As I read about the sailing stones, I could not help but recall the words of Jesus when asked by the Pharisees to rebuke His followers. The occasion was Jesus’ triumphant entry into Jerusalem. The people were crying out their “hosannas” to the Lord. Jesus told the Pharisees, quoting from the prophet Habakkuk, that “if these become silent, the stones will cry out!” (Luke 19.40 NASB; Habakkuk 2.11) Indeed!

If you ever question your worth to God, recall the sailing stones. Without the benefit of intelligence or purpose, they still point to their Creator. They appear to be immovable, and yet are pliable by the laws God put in place. As I take stock of what I can do, I note that even I can do more than the sailing stones, possessing locomotion and free will. How shameful, then, when I choose to sit silent as a boulder. May God use me like a rock so others can see my deeds and give God the glory (Matthew 5.13-16).
Further "science" from theists was that if the stones were pushed by a flood, the tracks would have been erased. Or, wind isn't strong enough. etc. There were many knee jerk answers to the problem, all included supernatural elements - because to them, that's the first explanation when something is unexplained.


Scientific explanation:
In 2014, scientists were able to capture the movement of the stones for the first time using time-lapse photography. The results strongly suggest that the sailing stones are the result of a perfect balance of ice, water, and wind. In the winter of 2014, rain formed a small pond that froze overnight and thawed the next day, creating a vast sheet of ice that was reduced by midday to only a few millimeters thick. Driven by a light wind, this sheet broke up and accumulated behind the stones, slowly pushing them forward.
https://www.nationalparks.org/connect/b ... f%20pounds.
https://earthsky.org/earth/death-valley ... ry-solved/

This is what is happening with the Shroud of Turin, Evolution, Climate Change, etc: Theists (and other wackos) offering ridiculous "answers" to solve very mundane problems.

So, what is your explanation for the rocks moving in Death Valley?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #11

Post by 1213 »

otseng wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:36 pm
1213 wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:12 amBut, I think it is not necessary wrong to call wackos those who call climate change a problem.
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On this forum, it would be wrong to call any group wackos.
...


Ok, sorry, I didn't mean to call any group wackos. I just understand if boatsnguitars calls climate alarmists wackos. I think it is not good to say so, but I think everyone has right to their opinion.

boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:29 am ...Theists (and other wackos)...

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #12

Post by boatsnguitars »

1213 wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:34 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:05 am ...Wind turbines are killing whales....
It is not only Trump who says so.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/kill-whales

https://nypost.com/2023/08/26/new-docum ... ll-whales/
People say a lot of things. What is the point of your post? To show that the Right Wing says a lot of stupid things? Because, if so, that is the point of most of my posts and it's great that you'd agree.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-reckoning/

Do you believe windfarms kill whales? Yes or no - or are you agnostic?

(And for the record, I am only calling wackos "wackos". Not climate alarmists - which is a weird claim. Also, I have to wonder: it's the Right Wing (anti alt fuel people) and Far Left conservationists claiming that windfarms kill whales. Is this a case where the Right Wing agrees with the extremists on the Left - because it suits their agenda?)
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

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Post by 1213 »

boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 4:59 am ...What is the point of your post?...
To show there can be legitimate reason to think it is true.

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #14

Post by boatsnguitars »

1213 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:21 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 4:59 am ...What is the point of your post?...
To show there can be legitimate reason to think it is true.
Where did you offer a legitimate reason? Because someone said it? Like someone claiming a man rose from the dead - that's all you need for it to be legitimate? That and you wanting to believe it?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #15

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Even before I do some checking, I see a problem with 'wind turbines kill whales'. The report from the press rather than any science source, is thrown at us 'there,science is evil".

I don't do it that way. Secularists and rationalists don't. If wind farms were killing whales, the matter would be looked at and why and what can be done to put it right. Not the Theists answer which I suspect is 'get rid of renewable energy and keep with the fossil fuels that make us Company bosses rich and get Republican and thus xtrm Christian support'. You see what's going on?

Like the perambulating boulders, Antiukthera mechanism and Sacsayhuman stones, when we don't know, we say 'Don't know', not the supernatural or gods from outer space. Anthony Flew did atheism one last service - he showed "Don't be hasty" is a good axiom. He was hasty, bought into Behe's IC before it was debunnked and he became a laughing stock.

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #16

Post by 1213 »

boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:17 am
1213 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:21 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 4:59 am ...What is the point of your post?...
To show there can be legitimate reason to think it is true.
Where did you offer a legitimate reason?...
I think the reasons are in the documentary.

https://nypost.com/2023/08/26/new-docum ... ll-whales/

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #17

Post by TRANSPONDER »

I had a quick look today and this is more or less the informed comment on wind farms killing whales.

"The acoustic sources being used in these surveys are either completely out of the hearing range of baleen whales or only capable of slightly disturbing their behavior, an expert told us. Regulations also require operators to make sure there are no whales nearby when conducting a survey.

There’s basically zero chance that those surveys have caused any mortality,” Douglas Nowacek, the chair of marine conservation technology at Duke University, told us in a phone interview.

Despite the lack of evidence, conservative media outlets and others have been spreading such claims on social media for months, with some appropriating the phrase “save the whales” to express their opposition to wind farms
."

It also seems to have been one of Donald Trump's uninformed and ill -advised opinions. And I can remember his performance during the problem, first denying there was any problem, coming up with all sorts of suggestions like using bleach, suggesting it would quickly go away and eventually, when measures had to be taken, claiming the credit for it. Worst ever, and not just because the cult - crowd treats him as a religious cult figure and think he has been sent by Jesus.

We all know how the religious right are science - skeptic. The mustwatch critical thinking training vid 'open minded' opines that those who are easily open to supernatural claims are also skeptical of science. Why? Because critical thinking and science questions, delays acceptance and debunks gods, ghosts and Ancient ET technology. It doesn't hurt that fossil fuel companies would like to have a government implacably opposed to clean energy.

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #18

Post by boatsnguitars »

Yep, it's literally because the Right Wing hates alternative fuel and they have a cult that loves disinformation. They create it; revel in it. They even call it "alternative facts."
These are the people who, when you tell them there is no evidence of a conspiracy, they point to the lack of evidence as the best evidence FOR a conspiracy! "That's exactly what the Illuminati would do!"
Everything is evidence for their beliefs.

It, IMO, stems from the education they receive from their religious upbringing: "Your beliefs are as legitimate as hard facts from evil, liberal scientists - you have God on your side! All things are possible with God! Even you, a completely ignorant troll, are always right about what you believe - as long as you believe what we tell you, and you put money in the collection plate.... Praise the Lord!"
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

Post #19

Post by William »

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #17
Ancient ET technology
.

ADVANCED technology. A different argument, and nothing science has shown us as impossible/supernatural.

Conflating in this case, only makes straw, easily blown aside.

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Re: Theism Analogy: Living Rocks of Death Valley

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

William wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:28 am [Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #17
Ancient ET technology
.

ADVANCED technology. A different argument, and nothing science has shown us as impossible/supernatural.

Conflating in this case, only makes straw, easily blown aside.
Yes, but the point is the same - science skepticism. A Supernatural answer rather than a scientific one. And the purpose is always the same - to try to make religious (a cosmic creative mind) or cult (gods from outer space) claims look more credible by debunking science. Usually by 'Science can't explain this!' like the sliding rocks puzzle.

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