THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF "THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY"

[Eddie Ramos]

It's interesting that this is another widely held doctrine by Christians, yet no one has ever put forth an actual age from the scriptures where children are not accountable for their sins. The fact is that when God looks at a human being, he looks at their heart and sees either righteousness or unrighteousness. If righteousness, then that means that Christ's atoning work has been applied to your life. At which point he has given that person a new and perfect heart that is free from sin, and has raised their dead soul to eternal life. If God sees unrighteousness in their heart, then it means that Christ's atoning work has not (or not yet) been applied to that individual and that individual is still in his or her sins. This applies from the moment of conception.

Psalm 51:5 (KJV 1900)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Can something conceived in sin be pure and clean in the eyes of God? The Bible says, no.

Job 14:4 (KJV 1900)
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.

So, how does God view a child conceived and still unsaved? The same way he views a grown up who is still unsaved, as wicked.

Psalm 58:3 (KJV 1900)
The wicked are estranged from the womb:
They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Most will say, "babies can't speak, so this can't be referring to babies". Yet this is parabolic language (as is the whole Bible) which is speaking of the spiritual condition (as viewed by God) of mankind who was yet in his sins.

When the Bible as a whole is taken into acount, it absolutely contradicts and therefore rejects such doctrine of any age of accountability. But why then was it invented? Because it was build upon another false doctrine, the free will doctrine which states that a person must make an informed choice if he is going to accept Christ. And since babies can't do that, they had to find a way to make them exempt. But this goes to show what happpens when someone tries to build upon a crooked foundation, everything else they build on that foundation will also be crooked.

My question for anyone who hold to this doctrine is, can you show me how the scriptures you use to support such doctrine agree witht he above Bible verses provided? Because if we isolate passages from the Bible as a whole, then we can make them say anything we want.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy.”​—1 Cor. 7:14.

However,

"Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous." - Eph 6:1

These scriptures show there is just the accountability of children to their parents. There is no magic age when children are considered accountable. They are accountable as soon as they understand Eph 6:1. Yet the Bible is clear at 1 Cor 7:14, a person that serves the True God in true worship brings a measure of protection to the children in the household, even if one parent is an unbeliever.

Regarding the children being "holy". 1 Cor 7:14 needs to be understood in light of the way God uses the word "holy" in the scriptures as wellas the whole of the scriptures. WHile the word "holy" means that someone has been made free from ther sins (meaning saved), it's also used to speak of those who only represent something. Israel was called "holy" nation. Yet this doesn't mean that they were set free from their sins.

Apples and oranges.

The nation of Israel was a nation of people that was under law that told them right from wrong. The children being referred to in Paul's inspired letter to the Christian congregation are not under the Law Code nor do young children even know what the word law means or even what sin means. To think that Jehovah God would not save a child because they don't understand the Law of the Christ even though their baptized parents do is inconceivable. Christ died for sinners didn't he? Doesn't that ransom cover a child that doesn't understand law?

[myth-one.com]

The nation of Israel was a nation of people that was under law that told them right from wrong. The children being referred to in Paul's inspired letter to the Christian congregation are not under the Law Code nor do young children even know what the word law means or even what sin means.

The law being referenced in these posts are the commandments of God -- not man's. But children are under neither.

To think that Jehovah God would not save a child because they don't understand the Law of the Christ even though their baptized parents do is inconceivable.

Yes, that's true. That's why that is not what happens.

Doesn't that ransom cover a child that doesn't understand law?

Nope. The child will not be covered until he or she understands the law and the penalties or rewards associated with breaking or keeping the laws.


<================= Here is how the scriptures say it all works =======================>

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was resurrected first:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming."

Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

Paul is writing to the Christians at Thessalonica, so "we" refers to Christians.

At this point, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as everlasting immortal spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

Every believer (dead or alive) was either resurrected or instantly changed to a spiritual being at the Second Coming. Therefore, the rest of the dead is composed of every nonbeliever who has ever died. These dead nonbelievers are resurrected after the Millennium:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:4)

All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were resurrected at the Second Coming. So the Book of life has been cleared. And there were no newly created human believers because how can they hear the good news without a preacher:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

Everyone raised in this second resurrection after the Millennium will face the great white throne judgment as all have sinned and are all headed for the second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again:

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why check the book again if there were no names in it prior to the second resurrection, and everyone resurrected at the second resurrection was a nonbeliever headed for the second death?

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire? Why bother raising them from the dead only to inflict another painful physical death upon them? This flies in the face of "God is love." If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead?

Of course, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

Children who die in their innocent years will make this decision after being resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming and reaching maturity. I was taught that innocent children go immediately to heaven upon their death. This is not the case. The true gospel message that every individual chooses his or her personal fate regardless of their age at death must replace the false message that deceased children go immediately to heaven for eternity.

Children will be treated the same as any other nonbeliever. They will be resurrected as humans at the second resurrection like every other deceased nonbeliever. They will reach maturity and be preached the gospel at that time:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

They will make their informed, educated, individual, personal choice between everlasting life or everlasting death at that time!

Those choosing life will live happily ever after!

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy.”​—1 Cor. 7:14.

However,

"Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous." - Eph 6:1

These scriptures show there is just the accountability of children to their parents. There is no magic age when children are considered accountable. They are accountable as soon as they understand Eph 6:1. Yet the Bible is clear at 1 Cor 7:14, a person that serves the True God in true worship brings a measure of protection to the children in the household, even if one parent is an unbeliever.

Regarding the children being "holy". 1 Cor 7:14 needs to be understood in light of the way God uses the word "holy" in the scriptures as wellas the whole of the scriptures. WHile the word "holy" means that someone has been made free from ther sins (meaning saved), it's also used to speak of those who only represent something. Israel was called "holy" nation. Yet this doesn't mean that they were set free from their sins.

Apples and oranges.

The nation of Israel was a nation of people that was under law that told them right from wrong. The children being referred to in Paul's inspired letter to the Christian congregation are not under the Law Code nor do young children even know what the word law means or even what sin means. To think that Jehovah God would not save a child because they don't understand the Law of the Christ even though their baptized parents do is inconceivable. Christ died for sinners didn't he? Doesn't that ransom cover a child that doesn't understand law?

Unless I'm reading your reply incorrectly, it seems you believe that everyone in the New Testament era is under grace, but everyone in the Old Testament era was under the law. If so, that's not the case at all. There were never 2 dispensations for salvation but only ever 1. Salvation was always by the grace of God through the faith of God. The faith of God meaning the work of Christ in making payment for sins, which he did before the world began. This is why Noah (long before the law) was saved by grace.

Genesis 6:8–9 (KJV 1900)
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

The word "just" means that he was righteous, and the word righteous comes from the word "justified". How could a person be justified from their sins thousands of years before the cross of 33 AD? Noah was also said to be perfect. This word is also translaed as "without blemish" which points to the work of Christ as the lamb that was slain for atonement had to be "without blemish"(Lev 4:32-35). The only problem with animal sacrifices throughout the Old Testament era is that they never actually did anything to atone for sins, much less make someone justified or perfect. All these sacrifies did was point to the one true sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:11 (KJV 1900)
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hebrews 10:4 (KJV 1900)
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This means that all the people who found grace in the Old Testament (i.e. were saved from their sins) could only have done so if someone actually paid for their sins first. Because God's own law declares that without the shedding of blood (death) there could be no forgiveness of sins, yet there was.

Of course none of this is any problem once we can see that Christ was indeed the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). That the works necessary to enter into his rest were finished from the foundation of the world (Heb 4:3).

Now, we can see how Noah was able to find grace in the eyes of God. Because God's grace was avaliable from day 1. Now, having said that, nowhere did anyone, at any age or mental capacity, ever have to be able to understand any part of the gospel in order for God to save them. There was only ever one requirement:

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)
So then faith (salvation) cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This is why God could save Jacob (whom he loved) and not save Esau (whom he hated) long before they ever did anything good or evil. In other words, God never took their works (good or evil) into consideration when he chose one and not the other. This is why God could also save a baby in the womb long before that baby can have any understanding of anything. So, Christ's ransom indeed covered children, but I think you believe that it covered every child, meaning every human being. And that simply isn't so. Unless an individual has the Spirit of God within them (meaning born again), they are none of His.

Romans 8:9 (KJV 1900)
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This context is specifically to those who have been born again. Has every baby had the Spirit of God within them? No, only those babies who were saved as babies. God helps us understand this by the following statement:

Matthew 7:22–23 (KJV 1900)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people being spoken to are those who thought they were saved but never were. Not only that, but God teaches us that he never had any type of relationship with these people because he never knew them. This means that even in their infancy, they were never known of God because they were never children of God, or indwelt by the Spirit of God, or just, or righteous or perfect before God.

This is why God describes those who are in their sins with some very strong language that stems back to their time of conception and even birth. And this is why there was the necessity of being born again, because being born the first time didn't accomplish any type of righteousness just by being born.

Psalm 51:5 (KJV 1900)
5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Job 14:4 (KJV 1900)

4  Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
Not one.

Psalm 58:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3  The wicked are estranged from the womb:
They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4  Their poison is like the poison of a serpent:
They are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

God uses language like this that stems back to the conception of a child because God looks at the heart and not at the cute little baby we all see who can do no wrong. But a perfect God sees only sin if He hasn't already saved that child. And sin is the reason for the language above which describes each and every child conceived of man and woman.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy.”​—1 Cor. 7:14.

However,

"Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous." - Eph 6:1

These scriptures show there is just the accountability of children to their parents. There is no magic age when children are considered accountable. They are accountable as soon as they understand Eph 6:1. Yet the Bible is clear at 1 Cor 7:14, a person that serves the True God in true worship brings a measure of protection to the children in the household, even if one parent is an unbeliever.

Regarding the children being "holy". 1 Cor 7:14 needs to be understood in light of the way God uses the word "holy" in the scriptures as wellas the whole of the scriptures. WHile the word "holy" means that someone has been made free from ther sins (meaning saved), it's also used to speak of those who only represent something. Israel was called "holy" nation. Yet this doesn't mean that they were set free from their sins.

Apples and oranges.

The nation of Israel was a nation of people that was under law that told them right from wrong. The children being referred to in Paul's inspired letter to the Christian congregation are not under the Law Code nor do young children even know what the word law means or even what sin means. To think that Jehovah God would not save a child because they don't understand the Law of the Christ even though their baptized parents do is inconceivable. Christ died for sinners didn't he? Doesn't that ransom cover a child that doesn't understand law?

Unless I'm reading your reply incorrectly, it seems you believe that everyone in the New Testament era is under grace, but everyone in the Old Testament era was under the law. If so, that's not the case at all.

Where is this 'everyone' coming from? I said nothing of the sort. Only the Jews where under the Law of Moses. That ended with Jesus death. We are getting off topic. The OP is about children and at what point are they accountable today. Forget the Law Code, it has been complete so there is no reason to bring it up. I'm only focusing on the children aspect.

The Bible is clear. A child that is under the care of a faithful believing parent is holy. Clean and protected by God. However, children are not just free and clear because they are a child. Eph 6:1 clear on that. We can either accept the scriptures or don't.

[myth-one.com]

The Bible is clear. A child that is under the care of a faithful believing parent is holy. Clean and protected by God. However, children are not just free and clear because they are a child. Eph 6:1 clear on that. We can either accept the scriptures or don't.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

So children are not free and clear, unless they are under the care of a believing parent -- in which case they are clean and protected by God.

That's clear as dirt.

Little Johnny is a devil.

But the little demon is under the care of believing parents.

Therefore, the holy little monster is clean and protected by God.

[2timothy316]

The Bible is clear. A child that is under the care of a faithful believing parent is holy. Clean and protected by God. However, children are not just free and clear because they are a child. Eph 6:1 clear on that. We can either accept the scriptures or don't.

Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

So children are not free and clear, unless they are under the care of a believing parent -- in which case they are clean and protected by God.

That's clear as dirt.

Little Johnny is a devil.

But the little demon is under the care of believing parents.

Therefore, the holy little monster is clean and protected by God.

No. As I said in my post, Eph 6:1 says a child must be obedient to be righteous. Yet first a child must know what it means to be obedient. Or do you expect God to kill 5 month old baby because to the parent, the baby is a 'devil' for crying too much? Or a 2 year old is denied God's protection because the day before Judgement Day they are throwing a fit in a grocery store?

[myth-one.com]

No. As I said in my post, Eph 6:1 says a child must be obedient to be righteous. Yet first a child must know what it means to be obedient.

Or do you expect God to kill 5 month old baby because to the parent, the baby is a 'devil' for crying too much? Or a 2 year old is denied God's protection because the day before Judgement Day they are throwing a fit in a grocery store?

I do not even associate those two opposing concepts with one another.

How do you?

Do you think righteousness saves anyone?

The only path to salvation for anyone, including babies, is to believe in Jesus as their Savior.

[2timothy316]

No. As I said in my post, Eph 6:1 says a child must be obedient to be righteous. Yet first a child must know what it means to be obedient.

Or do you expect God to kill 5 month old baby because to the parent, the baby is a 'devil' for crying too much? Or a 2 year old is denied God's protection because the day before Judgement Day they are throwing a fit in a grocery store?

I do not even associate those two opposing concepts with one another.

How do you?

Do you think righteousness saves anyone?

Why do you ask what I think? What does the Bible say?

If God declares a person righteous then, "The righteous will possess the earth, and they will live forever on it.”​—Psalm 37:29.

Do you think being declared unrighteousness saves anyone? What does the Bible say?
"the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment" - 2 Peter 2:9

Do you have a problem with God's Word? Because the Bible is clear, being declared righteous or unrighteous is a huge key point in the Bible and there is no third option. The scriptures above can't be clearer. A person can either accept those scriptures or deny them at their own peril.

[myth-one.com]

No. As I said in my post, Eph 6:1 says a child must be obedient to be righteous. Yet first a child must know what it means to be obedient.

Or do you expect God to kill 5 month old baby because to the parent, the baby is a 'devil' for crying too much? Or a 2 year old is denied God's protection because the day before Judgement Day they are throwing a fit in a grocery store?

I do not even associate those two opposing concepts with one another.

How do you?

Do you think righteousness saves anyone?

Why do you ask what I think? What does the Bible say?

If God declares a person righteous then, "The righteous will possess the earth, and they will live forever on it.”​—Psalm 37:29.

Do you think being declared unrighteousness saves anyone? What does the Bible say?
"the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment" - 2 Peter 2:9

Do you have a problem with God's Word? Because the Bible is clear, being declared righteous or unrighteous is a huge key point in the Bible and there is no third option. The scriptures above can't be clearer. A person can either accept those scriptures or deny them at their own peril.

The Bible says that those who do not believe in Christ will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming. They will be preached the gospel and accept or reject Jesus as their Savior during this second period of human life for them. Deceased infants will be included in this group.

[Diogenes]

Psalm 51:5 (KJV 1900)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Can something conceived in sin be pure and clean in the eyes of God? The Bible says, no.

I've looked at this post and others in response. I am fully aware this is the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section, where Bible verses constitute authority.
However, the debate here and the many contradictory views are the necessary result of the absurdity of accepting the Bible as truth. The utter nonsense of calling newborns, "conceived in sin" is obvious to anyone who uses logic instead of blind obedience to authority.

The very idea of calling the natural process of reproduction a sin is patently absurd on its face. Only religion can get otherwise rational people to believe such garbage. The result is endless debate based on the various absurdities "taken on faith" just because "the Bible says it's so." Rather than embrace these endless arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whether God can make a rock he can't lift, the wiser conclusion would be to chuck the whole thing.