Is Trinity the Word of God?

[BlackSheep21]

If you believe the Trinity is the Word of God, please provide scriptural proof that supports this predominant theology. This doctrine still confuses many believers today, and God is not the author of confusion. Any rebuttals must be backed up by scriptures. The Word of God itself dictates who is right and wrong.

[Data]

One reason I can do it without going smack out of my mind is to pick what really matters, and not get dragged off into irrelevant byways. Just consider if I put your remarks in the context of post Daaniken God was an astronaut arguments. I doubt that any more than me, would you want to get dragged into lime and braincell - wasting discussions about whether flying saucers were powered by spore -drive or by the same Powert that helped carve the pyramids. We have to choose our battles, and the only ones that matter is what the Bible actually says, which, with the translation shoppers and the Interpreters is tough enough without the opinions of the dumbells of later Roman theology being quoted.

Look, pal, if the Bible is not true, then every faithbased speculation of Orgen, Tertullian and Anselm are worthless. Worthless, do you get it?

Skipping over the crudely kneejerk bias accusation, as always, if you think they have something relevant to say, post it for discussion. But as always, you do not get to play misdirections like demanding we go and read this book or watch that video before we are qualified to post.

Would it be possible for you to state simply your objective and your intended means of achieving it? Without so much else?

You say the Bible isn't true. Define truth and explain how it (the Bible) isn't, in your opinion.

[TRANSPONDER]

Ok I'll bite and never mind the topic, and don't think for a moment I don't see the attempt to muddy the waters here. I'm happy to set out my stall.

True or fact is what is, or was, so. No matter what we humans think about it. All we can do is use evidence and logic to contruct explanatory models that seem closest to truth and reality as possible.

This means true in history and in physics Facts.

So on evidence and logic including critical thinking, we consider the Bible and we find problems, and the more we find, the less credible it looks, and the less credible the Bible experts who don't see these problems and ignore them when anyone points them up. Jerome, Marcion and Tertullian had the excuse that, contrary to the apologetic, the nearer one is to the time, the less they will know about it The modern day savants have no such excuse. They are either foolish, ignorant or dishonest. Possibly all three.

But as to why I don't credit the Bible as 'truth' it don't stack up, from the absurdity of Genesis to the horror and violence of the OT, and even Exodus, Tyre, Babylon and Daniel don't seem to actually be true, and the NT is equally dubious with fabicated nativities, resurrections almost as bad, contradictions, alterations , amendments and additions,

"Otherwise ok..?"(Basil Fawlty)

The biographical fantasy of Acts and Paul's self serving, logically flawed and mendacious letters and the less said about Revelation the better, but so far as the trinity goes.

I don't know all the theology, but I know enough that Jesus as god or man was a dispute and Arianism was remarkably successful in for example the later Roman culture of Spain (probably N Africa, too). It had to be both, not one or the other. Why a spiritual pseudopod of the Almighty would be considered a separate entity of God I don't get. But I understand the idea of Trinity though I don't really credit it.

[bjs1]

If you believe the Trinity is the Word of God, please provide scriptural proof that supports this predominant theology.

I assume that you accept from the scriptures that Jesus is not the Father, and that the Spirit is not the Father or Son. Agreed? If you need scripture references for this let me know.

Moving on from there…

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Matthew 28:19
Therefor go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

In these verses the Father, Son and Spirit are all treated as equal.

If you are looking for explicit statements that Jesus is God, then there is Colossians 2:9, which says, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Or again there is Philippians 2:6, which says of Jesus, “Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.”

We can also look to the Gospels, which Jesus did things that only God can do. He forgave sins, accepted worship, and created something out of nothing. He claimed oneness with the Father, and everyone around him recognized that he was claiming to be God.

This doctrine still confuses many believers today, and God is not the author of confusion.

Life is complicated. It can be confusing. If you want a faith that can be understood by a child, then you will probably get a childish faith. If we want a mature faith then that will come complications and things which are not easy to understand.


For future reference, debates that rely on the scriptures being true should be placed in the theology sub-forum. This is the apologetics sub-forum, where scripture is not treated as authoritative.

[TRANSPONDER]

But the problem there is circular argument. The Dogma says trinity (since Nikea said so) and thus all mention of Father, Son and Holy Spirit is interpreted as meaning Trinity.

But I see that Paul saw Father and son as totally different entities. Jesus (in Paul) is a messiah, but not God. Trinity falls down right there - unless one argues that Paul really thought Jesus was God. And it doesn't help to point to the Gospels, as they follow Paul, not Paul following the gospels, which is why we see that Mark's manipulated messiah, trundled about the landscape by the Spirit turn into the Glowing God incarnate of John. Jesus evolves from Man to God.

The Spirit is not a separate entity, but God reaching out to the privileged Faithful just as it did to Jesus at the baptism, turning him from man to god, and don't let those fake Nativities tell you anything else. The spiritual pseudopod landing on Jesus' shoulder like a dove-dropping, was the finger of God, not some third divine being.

[TheRootOfDavid]

God is not the author of confusion.

Who is the author of confusion?