Prophicies Fulfilled

[juber3]

According to the Bible KJV i have seen many prophicies being fulfilled such as the nation of israel being rebuilt. There shall be wars and rumors of wars Sound like Afghanistna and Iraq to me. Babalyon shall be rebuilt in the last days. Please see that IRAQ is where babylon is at. . Men shall be lusting after their own self. If these prohicies are being fulfilled amongst Americans and the World, then why dont people believe

[The Nice Centurion]

According to the Bible KJV i have seen many prophicies being fulfilled such as the nation of israel being rebuilt. There shall be wars and rumors of wars Sound like Afghanistna and Iraq to me. Babalyon shall be rebuilt in the last days. Please see that IRAQ is where babylon is at. . Men shall be lusting after their own self. If these prohicies are being fulfilled amongst Americans and the World, then why dont people believe

Joseph Smith prophecied an upcoming war between North and South USA. Also England taking sides with the South.

Why arent all people mormon right now?

[TRANSPONDER]

You say most. But I have never heard any argue that Chapter 9 was in the day of Daniel. Perhaps you could cite a few that claim that Chapter 9 doesn't concern the future. It was also treated as such in the New Testament (Mat 24:15), meaning that it must have been interpreted as distant prophecy in that time period. I would hardly say that it was ambigous to predict when the Messiah would be "cut off". Some of Daniel's prophecies were written about the immediate future and are difficult to test. However, the 70 weeks prophecy even start Jewish sages writing that Bar Cochba was the Messiah.

Yes, but those prophecies do not mention Jesus by name or by any clearly identifiable feature.
I said most sources, but that of course needs to be qualified: I'm speaking from definite cultural backgrounds, the Spanish speaking world and Western Europe. I'll try to find English language sources for you to examine. Alternatively, I could try to translate the most significant Spanish fragments into English for you when I have some free time.

As an overview, what I have most often read is this:

1. Daniel was written by an unknown author approximately between 165-164 BC.
2. It was the last book to be accepted into the Jewish canon, around 90 AD, and it was placed in "Writings" rather than with the prophets.
3. It's an apocalyptic book rather than a prophetic one.
4. Its purpose is to comfort the Jews and encourage them to persevere in their faith despite growing pressures.
5. At the time, the Jews were suffering under the oppression of Seleucid king Antiochus IV (175-164 BC).
6. Many of Daniel's prophetic dreams refer to the political intrigues of the day.
7. Several of his specific predictions about the immediate future of the Alexandrian/Seleucid and Ptolomeic kingdoms were not fulfilled.

A fair and balanced skeptical source is Tim Callahan (author of The Secret Origins of The Bible and also Bible Prophecies. Failure or Fulfillment?").

Agreed. The evidence for the 165/4 BC date is that the 'prophecy' (as retrospective history presented in prophetic language) is right up to that date, and then is wrong. In that case we know the 'messiah cut off' is High priest Onias III. It also explains why the account of the fall of Babylon, supposedly written by one at the time is oddly sloppy, like 'Daniel' was working from ancient historical records. For example, Belshazzar wasn't the king but acting regent while Nabonidus was off doing pious pilgrimages.

There are some problems in placing the dates of these 'prophecies'. Like the prophecy of Tyre appears to refer to a time when Alexander's causeway hadn't silted up (the present city covers mainland, Island Tyre and the causeway) and before the mainland city had been rebuilt or the writer could hardly claim it would never be rebuilt. Similarly my blithe claim that Babylon never fell (it was still the capital up to the Sassanid Persians) when it did, in an Assyrian destruction, but the next king rebuilt it so Babylon was destroyed forever, if the Bible does claim rather than imply that.

As to NT prophecy, we have already seen how the trick works. John puts the result of the Jewish war into Caiaphas' mouth as a prophecy. John already knows what happened and the Message of the gospels is - Jerusalem fell because they rejected and killed Jesus. But the 'prophecy' I most like are the two in the of -discussed death of Judas. Oddly, while debating whether one can be hanged and also burst open or whether someone you gave money back to is using it to purchase it for the person who gave the money back, and was dead, already, and swinging from a tree waiting for the rope to rot and let him fall.

Nobody ever mentions the prophecy in Acts 1 and Matthew, If one traces the OT originals it becomes clear that both Matthew and Luke used odd and irrelevant scraps of OT text and Luke even mistranslates it to fit. Once one knows the trick, they won';t be fooled by the claim of Prophecy again.