Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[Dimmesdale]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

This material world is a hell.

That's all I have left to say on the topic of hell....

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Jesus taught there was such a place. The name men give it doesn’t matter.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Since when is Webster an authority on the afterlife?

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

It would be far better for those fight with the sword of word definitions that Hell doesn’t exist to ensure they don’t go there.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

Words in the Bible have the highest authority in this forum. Truly, the words from the Bible come from mankind's master. The point of showing the origin of the word is that the meaning of the word has changed over time and that the first use of the word didn't mean what everyone thinks it means today.

To use your example, bonfire now means bon bon because I say so. See, it shouldn't work that way should it? Nor should it work that way for the word hell.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

Words in the Bible have the highest authority in this forum. Truly, the words from the Bible come from mankind's master. The point of showing the origin of the word is that the meaning of the word has changed over time and that the first use of the word didn't mean what everyone thinks it means today.

This is the common position of monolinguals. They think the word itself, not what it’s describing has authority. Bilinguals are freed from the tyranny of words.

Fact is, not a single sentence or word in the Bible was rendered in English, not one. So this “authority” of the word is just what the translator happened to choose. The concept has power. The English word does not. Words Shakespeare used don’t have the same meaning as then. Doesn’t mean the places those words described didn’t exist.

To use your example, bonfire now means bon bon because I say so. See, it shouldn't work that way should it? Nor should it work that way for the word hell.

Hell is described in detail by Jesus. Detail and he was the authority on it. Call it Hades, Gehenna, Hölle, or a hot spot, it’s still the same place. Defining the word won’t make it go away.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Jesus taught there was such a place. The name men give it doesn’t matter.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Since when is Webster an authority on the afterlife?

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

It would be far better for those fight with the sword of word definitions that Hell doesn’t exist to ensure they don’t go there.

Didn't you read what 2Timothy wrote? He explained what "hell" actually is, and it can be seen how some Bible translators rendered the words "Gehenna," "Hades," and "Tartarus," and how it confuses the issue of "hell." Read Timothy's post again. That is just the truth. Whether or not you will accept it.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Jesus taught there was such a place. The name men give it doesn’t matter.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Since when is Webster an authority on the afterlife?

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

It would be far better for those fight with the sword of word definitions that Hell doesn’t exist to ensure they don’t go there.

Didn't you read what 2Timothy wrote? He explained what "hell" actually is, and it can be seen how some Bible translators rendered the words "Gehenna," "Hades," and "Tartarus," and how it confuses the issue of "hell." Read Timothy's post again. That is just the truth. Whether or not you will accept it.

I understand the desire to erase the reality of the place where “the fire is never quenched and the worm never dies” by reducing the definition of the word used. This is usually done by monolinguals who do not know that actual reality can be described by different words. It’s called the tyranny of words. So I’ve read pieces where the attempt to ensure those heading for hell that the place isn’t there because of one meaning of the word. When they get there, they can tell the inhabitants that the place they are in isn’t there because Gehenna or Hell or Hades meant something else. The inhabitants will laugh and say, “we know…we used that maneuver to lull millions.”

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

Words in the Bible have the highest authority in this forum. Truly, the words from the Bible come from mankind's master. The point of showing the origin of the word is that the meaning of the word has changed over time and that the first use of the word didn't mean what everyone thinks it means today.

This is the common position of monolinguals. They think the word itself, not what it’s describing has authority. Bilinguals are freed from the tyranny of words.

Yet you can't history as to what a word used to mean. The original meaning of the word hell is fact. One can accept or deny it, but it doesn't change history no matter how many languages a person knows.

Fact is, not a single sentence or word in the Bible was rendered in English, not one. So this “authority” of the word is just what the translator happened to choose. The concept has power. The English word does not. Words Shakespeare used don’t have the same meaning as then. Doesn’t mean the places those words described didn’t exist.

None of this matters. The message of the Bible comes to mankind in many languages. Rev 14:6. No where in the Bible does it say that the message of the Bible depends on ones 'concept'. It says quite the opposite. 2 Tim 3:16.

To use your example, bonfire now means bon bon because I say so. See, it shouldn't work that way should it? Nor should it work that way for the word hell.

Hell is described in detail by Jesus. Detail and he was the authority on it. Call it Hades, Gehenna, Hölle, or a hot spot, it’s still the same place. Defining the word won’t make it go away.

I see you don't have a snappy answer for my example. Hellfire never existed so there is nothing to 'make go away'. "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all" Ecc 9:5. If the dead know nothing at all then there is noway for them to know pain. The words hades and gehenna don't refer to the same thing. That would like me saying that bonfire means both a big fire and mound of cold dirt. To elect to accept two words mean the same thing when experts in the Greek language say they don't doesn't mean hell does exist. This is a personal belief and doesn't mean it is true. Ecc 9:5 is true, the dead know nothing.

[Mae von H]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

So when the new arrivals insist Gehenna meant the “grave, “I hear a, “oh yeah. Your body is the grave all right. It’s just that rest of you isn’t.”

[Mae von H]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

Words in the Bible have the highest authority in this forum. Truly, the words from the Bible come from mankind's master. The point of showing the origin of the word is that the meaning of the word has changed over time and that the first use of the word didn't mean what everyone thinks it means today.

This is the common position of monolinguals. They think the word itself, not what it’s describing has authority. Bilinguals are freed from the tyranny of words.

Yet you can't history as to what a word used to mean. The original meaning of the word hell is fact. One can accept or deny it, but it doesn't change history no matter how many languages a person knows.

First, “history” is a noun not a verb. I suppose if a person comes across a book about computer hardware and finds the word, “mouse” he will rightly (in your view) instead it means a rodent. There is no other possibility. After all, that’s what the word meant. The word “God” has pagan deity origin. Best not use it. It didn’t mean the Father of Jesus.

Fact is, not a single sentence or word in the Bible was rendered in English, not one. So this “authority” of the word is just what the translator happened to choose. The concept has power. The English word does not. Words Shakespeare used don’t have the same meaning as then. Doesn’t mean the places those words described didn’t exist.

None of this matters. The message of the Bible comes to mankind in many languages. Rev 14:6. No where in the Bible does it say that the message of the Bible depends on ones 'concept'. It says quite the opposite. 2 Tim 3:16.

The tyranny of words has a grip on you. What a word originally meant is all it can ever mean….sigh!!

To use your example, bonfire now means bon bon because I say so. See, it shouldn't work that way should it? Nor should it work that way for the word hell.

Hell is described in detail by Jesus. Detail and he was the authority on it. Call it Hades, Gehenna, Hölle, or a hot spot, it’s still the same place. Defining the word won’t make it go away. And the fact that you think you can redefine a word shows that the “real” meaning actually doesn’t matter.

Hellfire never existed so there is nothing to 'make go away'. "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all" Ecc 9:5. If the dead know nothing at all then there is noway for them to know pain. The words hades and gehenna don't refer to the same thing. That would like me saying that bonfire means both a big fire and mound of cold dirt. To elect to accept two words mean the same thing when experts in the Greek language say they don't doesn't mean hell does exist. This is a personal belief and doesn't mean it is true. Ecc 9:5 is true, the dead know nothing.

Every atheist is hoping you’re right and Jesus is wrong. They and you are staking your eternity on Webster. Let’s move on.

[2timothy316]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

So when the new arrivals insist Gehenna meant the “grave, “I hear a, “oh yeah. Your body is the grave all right. It’s just that rest of you isn’t.”

Yeah, that is what they teach in most religious dogma and many people accept it with no question. However, the Bible says that a dead person knows nothing. Dead = dead. Dead doesn't mean somehow alive elsewhere.