Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[LittleNipper]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

So you don't know. Gottcha. This explains a lot.
Do you know what pagan means?

Do you know what Christian means? By the way, I do not believe CHRISTMAS nor EASTER (Resurrection Sunday) to be pagan holidays.

Ah, by this reply you do not know what pagan means either. Along with your denial that Christmas and Easter are not pagan is useful information as to who you worship.

From the encyclopedia for the origin of Christmas.
"One widespread explanation of the origin of this date is that December 25 was the Christianizing of the dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a popular holiday in the Roman Empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter and the heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer."

Enjoy your sun worshiping holiday I guess.

From the encyclopedia on Easter.
"The English word Easter, which parallels the German word Ostern, is of uncertain origin. One view, expounded by the Venerable Bede in the 8th century, was that it derived from Eostre, or Eostrae, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and fertility."

Enjoy worshiping your fertility goddess I guess. Which if you understood the what a demigod was, then you'd know every Easter you're worshiping one.

As far as your question do I know what a Christian is, I do know and I know Christ would never go to a celebration for an Anglo-Saxon goddess of fertility. Since I do know what demigods are and what pagan means I know that a Christian shouldn't be worshiping these things because a Christian follows Christ and doesn't follow a fertility goddess.

I worship my LORD and Savior JESUS CHRIST, who suffered and died for my transgression and arose from the dead so that I may have eternal life. I do not worship the doctrines and literature of a cult which believes that through works one may appease a god. Christmas is not a pagan holiday. Christmas is the Christian remembrance and celebration of the birth of JESUS the MESSIAH. Christians believe that, by CHRIST, GOD entered the human race and deserves the title Immanuel or “God With Us” (Matthew 1:23). Some say that various Christmas traditions have pagan origins, so the question regarding CHRISTMASTIDE is legitimate:

First, the pagan origins of Christmas are not certain. The winter solstice, often tied with Christmas, never falls on December 25. Likewise, Saturnalia, which has also been proposed as the origin of Christmas, was never celebrated on December 25. Other Christmas symbols, such as trees and candles, may have had some pagan connotations, but these are so common to human experience that it can hardly be claimed that their use was ever exclusive to paganism.

Secondly, the meaning of any word, symbol, or custom is determined by current usage, not origin. Many words and practices have departed from their origins and no longer mean anything close to what they once did. For instance, the swastika has been around for thousands of years as a symbol of good fortune. It was therefore reasonable for the Nazi party to take this as their symbol, as they emphasized that they were the party to bring good times back to Germany, which was going through hard times after World War I. However, it would be absolute foolishness for a person to decorate his home today with swastikas based on their “real meaning.” The swastika has been so thoroughly identified with the horrors of the Holocaust that, in the current culture, it is a symbol for anti-Semitism and things evil. The original meaning of the symbol is now completely irrelevant.

Likewise, if you asked the average American to tell you about Nike, probably better than 90 percent would talk about a brand of sneekers and clothing with hardly any mention of the Greek goddess of victory for whom the company is labelled. In a Google search of the term Nike, you would have to sift through dozens of results before you found anything about the Greek goddess Nike. When you see someone wearing the famous “swoosh,” your first thought relates to the modern company, not an ancient goddess, and no one would assume that the wearer of said clothing is practices pagan worship.

Regardless of what the Christmas symbols may once have meant, their use today needs to be evaluated on the basis of what they mean today. To automatically associate candles, colored lights, or decorated trees with pagan worship is unreasonable.

If there are unbiblical practices in our Christmas celebration, then those should be forsaken. Feasting is biblical, but gluttony is not, so perhaps that is an area that Christians need to think about in their Christmas pursuits. Drinking alcoholic beverages is not forbidden by the Bible, but getting drunk is. So, a Christian celebration should not involve drunkenness. Giving of gifts is biblical, but going into debt or spending beyond your means is not, so Christmas gifts should be prudently purchased. It’s good for Christians to examine their celebrations to make sure that they truly honor GOD.

Third, when cultures clash, there is always an attempt to change and co-opt language and cultural symbols. Paul had no problem co-opting a pagan altar in order to reveal the gospel. Speaking at the Areopagus, he says, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you” (Acts 17:23–24).

If what we know as Christmas originally started out as a pagan celebration, then it has been so successfully co-opted by Christians that any self-respecting pagan would be distressed at what Christians have accomplished. Christmas celebrations are so completely the opposite of paganism that any suggested link between the two should seem unreasonable.

Christians celebrating Christmas are no more pagan than are churches who gather to worship on Sunday (so named because it was the pagan “Day of the Sun”) or who hold a prayer service on Wednesday (named after the Norse god Woden). The pagan origins of the names of the days of the week have nothing to do with the church’s weekly gatherings, and ancient pagan winter festivals have no real bearing on the modern Christian celebration of Christmas.

Imagine a second- or third-century Christian reflecting on his town’s celebration of Saturnalia. He thinks to himself: “The whole town is celebrating Saturnalia with feasting and giving of gifts. They are talking about ‘freeing souls into immortality’ and ‘the dawn of a golden age.’ I think this might be a great time to throw a party and invite my friends over to tell them how their souls really can be freed into immortality and the dawning of the truest golden age of all, the Kingdom of GOD. I think it might be a good idea to give them some gifts as well in honor of GOD’s giving us the greatest gift of all --- HIS SON." In this way, a celebration is “redeemed” to GOD’s glory and Christians are given a biblical alternative to a pagan day.

With every cultural practice, Christians usually fall into three different camps. Some simply accept the practice wholesale without any reflection. Obviously, this is not wise. Other Christians will simply reject it and often retreat into a Christian subculture. Finally, some will carefully reflect on the cultural practice, embrace what they can, reject what’s ungodly, and redeem what’s worth redemption. Christians have been so successful in co-opting some cultural practices that no one even remembers what the original meanings of the practices were. If the origins of Christmas are indeed pagan, then this is what happened, to GOD be the glory! Would to God that it would happen to more of our social and cultural norms, conventions and activities.

Although not written about Christmas, Romans 14:5–6 seems to apply: “One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.” If an individual Christian does not feel comfortable with some or all aspects of the celebration of Christmas, that Christian should do what he or she believes to be best/correct. However, should not judge others who believe and celebrate differently, nor should the others judge him, where no clear biblical guideline are absolutely specified.

[LittleNipper]

Peace to you,

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #585]

(I am not a jw)

HOW can CHRIST be in the EXACT likeness of GOD and not be GOD?

By being exactly like His Father. "Exact likeness."

If Christ WERE God, then there would be no reason to say that He was in the 'likeness' of God.

I am not in the exact likeness of myself. I am simply myself.

Are you in the exact likeness of yourself?

That question doesn't make sense, right? Because you simply ARE yourself. You are not "in the exact likeness" of yourself...


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

The FATHER and the SON are two different beings. I can certainly say that I am in the likeness of my dad. We are two different beings even though we are both human. The very same is entirely true of CHRIST/MASSIAH. CHRIST is in the very likeness of the FATHER because THEY are both GOD/DEITY.
They are ONE. THEY are GOD. There is only ONE GOD.

[onewithhim]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

So you don't know. Gottcha. This explains a lot.
Do you know what pagan means?

Do you know what Christian means? By the way, I do not believe CHRISTMAS nor EASTER (Resurrection Sunday) to be pagan holidays.

To add my $.02, "Christian" means someone who follows Christ and does what he tells them to do. And I have to say, you aren't familiar with common knowledge about the pagan holidays. What planet have you lived on? Christmas and Easter are steeped in pagan traditions. What does a Yule Log have to do with Christ? What do bunnies and chickies have to do with Christ?

[onewithhim]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

So you don't know. Gottcha. This explains a lot.
Do you know what pagan means?

Do you know what Christian means? By the way, I do not believe CHRISTMAS nor EASTER (Resurrection Sunday) to be pagan holidays.

Ah, by this reply you do not know what pagan means either. Along with your denial that Christmas and Easter are not pagan is useful information as to who you worship.

From the encyclopedia for the origin of Christmas.
"One widespread explanation of the origin of this date is that December 25 was the Christianizing of the dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a popular holiday in the Roman Empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter and the heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer."

Enjoy your sun worshiping holiday I guess.

From the encyclopedia on Easter.
"The English word Easter, which parallels the German word Ostern, is of uncertain origin. One view, expounded by the Venerable Bede in the 8th century, was that it derived from Eostre, or Eostrae, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and fertility."

Enjoy worshiping your fertility goddess I guess. Which if you understood the what a demigod was, then you'd know every Easter you're worshiping one.

As far as your question do I know what a Christian is, I do know and I know Christ would never go to a celebration for an Anglo-Saxon goddess of fertility. Since I do know what demigods are and what pagan means I know that a Christian shouldn't be worshiping these things because a Christian follows Christ and doesn't follow a fertility goddess.

I worship my LORD and Savior JESUS CHRIST, who suffered and died for my transgression and arose from the dead so that I may have eternal life. I do not worship the doctrines and literature of a cult which believes that through works one may appease a god.

What about Jesus' Father whom he loved? You can see how much he loved the Father if you read John 17. Why ignore YHWH, the true God? Jesus said to worship only the Father, YHWH. Quoting the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus said: "It is written, 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Luke 4:8, quoted from Deuteronomy 6:13 and 10:20)

Having said that, which was on Jesus' mind all the time, we DO believe that Jesus suffered and died for us so that we could live forever.

You made the statement that JWs are a cult that believes that through works one may appease God. That is not true. You are making statements that are lies. JWs believe that first you must believe in Jesus' sacrifice. (John 3:16) Only then do you perform works in accordance with that belief. Jesus said: "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16) His brother James said: "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26) Do you think JWs made up those Scriptures?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #601]
I see you have a lot of words, all of which are not new, to try and justify your worship of pagan orientated worship. You have given no scripture though, once again, to defend your worship. You don't need to justify your worship to me, as I said enjoy your worship. If you really want to defend your pagan worship, use the Bible not your own words. Your own words have no God given authority.

Here are some words from the Bible that DO have authority.

"You must not follow after other gods, any gods of the peoples who are all around you." Deut 6:14

Why do you engage in the celebration of the gods that are around you? So show us all, using the Bible, that it is ok to engage in the celebrations that go to other gods that surround around us.

[Tcg]

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I worship my LORD and Savior JESUS CHRIST, who suffered and died for my transgression and arose from the dead so that I may have eternal life. I do not worship the doctrines and literature of a cult which believes that through works one may appease a god. Christmas is not a pagan holiday. Christmas is the Christian remembrance and celebration of the birth of JESUS the MESSIAH. Christians believe that, by CHRIST, GOD entered the human race and deserves the title Immanuel or “God With Us” (Matthew 1:23). Some say that various Christmas traditions have pagan origins, so the question regarding CHRISTMASTIDE is legitimate:

First, the pagan origins of Christmas are not certain. The winter solstice, often tied with Christmas, never falls on December 25. Likewise, Saturnalia, which has also been proposed as the origin of Christmas, was never celebrated on December 25. Other Christmas symbols, such as trees and candles, may have had some pagan connotations, but these are so common to human experience that it can hardly be claimed that their use was ever exclusive to paganism.

Secondly, the meaning of any word, symbol, or custom is determined by current usage, not origin. Many words and practices have departed from their origins and no longer mean anything close to what they once did. For instance, the swastika has been around for thousands of years as a symbol of good fortune. It was therefore reasonable for the Nazi party to take this as their symbol, as they emphasized that they were the party to bring good times back to Germany, which was going through hard times after World War I. However, it would be absolute foolishness for a person to decorate his home today with swastikas based on their “real meaning.” The swastika has been so thoroughly identified with the horrors of the Holocaust that, in the current culture, it is a symbol for anti-Semitism and things evil. The original meaning of the symbol is now completely irrelevant.

Likewise, if you asked the average American to tell you about Nike, probably better than 90 percent would talk about a brand of sneekers and clothing with hardly any mention of the Greek goddess of victory for whom the company is labelled. In a Google search of the term Nike, you would have to sift through dozens of results before you found anything about the Greek goddess Nike. When you see someone wearing the famous “swoosh,” your first thought relates to the modern company, not an ancient goddess, and no one would assume that the wearer of said clothing is practices pagan worship.

Regardless of what the Christmas symbols may once have meant, their use today needs to be evaluated on the basis of what they mean today. To automatically associate candles, colored lights, or decorated trees with pagan worship is unreasonable.

If there are unbiblical practices in our Christmas celebration, then those should be forsaken. Feasting is biblical, but gluttony is not, so perhaps that is an area that Christians need to think about in their Christmas pursuits. Drinking alcoholic beverages is not forbidden by the Bible, but getting drunk is. So, a Christian celebration should not involve drunkenness. Giving of gifts is biblical, but going into debt or spending beyond your means is not, so Christmas gifts should be prudently purchased. It’s good for Christians to examine their celebrations to make sure that they truly honor GOD.

Third, when cultures clash, there is always an attempt to change and co-opt language and cultural symbols. Paul had no problem co-opting a pagan altar in order to reveal the gospel. Speaking at the Areopagus, he says, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you” (Acts 17:23–24).

If what we know as Christmas originally started out as a pagan celebration, then it has been so successfully co-opted by Christians that any self-respecting pagan would be distressed at what Christians have accomplished. Christmas celebrations are so completely the opposite of paganism that any suggested link between the two should seem unreasonable.

Christians celebrating Christmas are no more pagan than are churches who gather to worship on Sunday (so named because it was the pagan “Day of the Sun”) or who hold a prayer service on Wednesday (named after the Norse god Woden). The pagan origins of the names of the days of the week have nothing to do with the church’s weekly gatherings, and ancient pagan winter festivals have no real bearing on the modern Christian celebration of Christmas.

Imagine a second- or third-century Christian reflecting on his town’s celebration of Saturnalia. He thinks to himself: “The whole town is celebrating Saturnalia with feasting and giving of gifts. They are talking about ‘freeing souls into immortality’ and ‘the dawn of a golden age.’ I think this might be a great time to throw a party and invite my friends over to tell them how their souls really can be freed into immortality and the dawning of the truest golden age of all, the Kingdom of GOD. I think it might be a good idea to give them some gifts as well in honor of GOD’s giving us the greatest gift of all --- HIS SON." In this way, a celebration is “redeemed” to GOD’s glory and Christians are given a biblical alternative to a pagan day.

With every cultural practice, Christians usually fall into three different camps. Some simply accept the practice wholesale without any reflection. Obviously, this is not wise. Other Christians will simply reject it and often retreat into a Christian subculture. Finally, some will carefully reflect on the cultural practice, embrace what they can, reject what’s ungodly, and redeem what’s worth redemption. Christians have been so successful in co-opting some cultural practices that no one even remembers what the original meanings of the practices were. If the origins of Christmas are indeed pagan, then this is what happened, to GOD be the glory! Would to God that it would happen to more of our social and cultural norms, conventions and activities.

Although not written about Christmas, Romans 14:5–6 seems to apply: “One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.” If an individual Christian does not feel comfortable with some or all aspects of the celebration of Christmas, that Christian should do what he or she believes to be best/correct. However, should not judge others who believe and celebrate differently, nor should the others judge him, where no clear biblical guideline are absolutely specified.

[LittleNipper]

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[LittleNipper]

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LittleNipper - until you address the question asked of you in post #606, your replies in this thread will be removed.

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[LittleNipper]

Moderator Intervention

LittleNipper - until you address the question asked of you in post #606, your replies in this thread will be removed.

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Moderator interventions do not count as a strike against any posters. They are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels that some sort of intervention is required.

[JehovahsWitness]

The FATHER and the SON are two different beings. I can certainly say that I am in the likeness of my dad. We are two different beings even though we are both human.

A very good illustration.

JESUS PRAYED TO HIS SAVIOR

HEBREWS 5:7 NIV

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death

Jesus Christ Is Designated Savior - see post # 12


Luke 2:11 - see post # 2 “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
John 4:42 see post # 3 “We have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
Acts 5:31 - see post # 12 - Jesus “hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”
Acts 13:23 - see post # 12 “Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.”
Phil. 3:20 - see post # 3 “From whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.”
2 Tim. 1:10 - see post # 3 “But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”
Titus 1:4 - see post # 3 “The Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.”
1 John 4:14 - see post # 12 “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”

TRINITY 2023: viewtopic.php?p=1112469#p1112469

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