Why Did God Create Atheists?

[Miles]

.

There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”

“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”

—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)

So, reasonable or not. We atheists exist to set an example to the morally stunted of the world?


.

[Mae von H]

P4 does not work with the other assumptions because to do as you suggest would be evil and that act is eliminated already. It is a little like, "if God is good and wants me to believe in Him, He would force me to believe in him whether I want to or not." Being good and forcing someone to think something because you have the power is impossible. The Good does not force itself upon another as it is no longer good. This is the usual problem that is missed. Having great power does not equate with being a tyrant. And no, having all knowledge does not mean one can find a way to be remain good and do evil. Having all knowledge means one SEES that one cannot be good and do evil.

Nonsense.
1.
Beliefs are not acquired by choice.
We are compelled into belief by certain evidence or reasons.
God would not force any choice sir. We would simply be convinced he exists.
God supposedly appeared to multiple people in the Bible stories and convinced them of his existence.
Q: Did he forced them to believe he exists?

Beliefs are definately acquired by choice. Every jury proves this. They hear the evidence and make a choice what to believe. Some honest people want to believe the truth and so spend energy looking for it.

Now, please produce the Bible verses that say God appeared to some. It is true that messengers appeared but NEVER EVER to atheists. And the messengers never were commissioned to tell the recipients that God is alive. All of those who received messengers from the living God were devoted believers. God does not have the goal of someone merely believing in Him. You are greatly mistaken.

Also let's not forget God intervened with Pharaoh free will. Forced him to not let the Israelites go. So much for the precious "free will gift".

"[1] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: [20] But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go."(Exodus 10)

You forget that it says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. So much for God forcing people.

2. Analogy:

Pete is an orphan since 10 years old. Was raised by a single mother.
He does not know if he has a father or not.
Sometimes he wanders about his father existence.

And then one day he learned about reproduction in school and KNEW he had a father.

Your saying Pete father exists, cares about Pete, wants to have a relationship with the boy, wants the boy to know he exists yet this does not happen because the father does not want to force the belief that he exist to the boy although he did show himself to some of his others sons. It does not make sense sir.

I agree, it makes no sense at all. But I do see that you have heard the often repeated nonsense that all God wants is just to have relationship with people. You won't find this in the scripture as to His own goal.

The logical scenarios are:
-the father might exist but be indifferent to Pete existence(knows about him but does not care)
or
- the father might exist but does not know about Pete's existence(one night stand)
or
- the father might exist but the relationship is impossible to happen(Pete being conceived in vitro from a random sperm sampling).
or
- the father does not exist, never existed. Pete was conceived only by his mother who was a true hermaphrodite.

The latter is nonsense, true nonsense. Would you like to know what God wants? Be assured, He is not lonely nor missing you or anyone. I can tell you what He wants in one sentence. "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what God requires of you, but that you do justly (by others) and love mercy (towards those who do not justly to you) and walk humbly with your God." None of this is the sappy nonsense one hears in church these days. So I do not blame you for the false impression you have received.

[alexxcJRO]

Beliefs are definately acquired by choice. Every jury proves this. They hear the evidence and make a choice what to believe. Some honest people want to believe the truth and so spend energy looking for it.
Now, please produce the Bible verses that say God appeared to some. It is true that messengers appeared but NEVER EVER to atheists. And the messengers never were commissioned to tell the recipients that God is alive. All of those who received messengers from the living God were devoted believers. God does not have the goal of someone merely believing in Him. You are greatly mistaken.

1.
No they are not.
I did choose to become an atheist. I was compelled by the evidence showing the other way around. I was a Pentecostal Christian. And I believed God of the Bible exists, prayed to him, went to Church.
As I learned more about our world, became more knowledgeable of certain topics: logic, philosophy, cosmology, geology, biology, paleontology, psychology, physics and watched several debate on the topic I started to question. Few years later I became an atheist.
2.
God did appeared, revealed himself to Adam and Eve, Noah, Jacob, Moses, to Saul-Paul and so on.
According to your logic he forced them to belief which according to you its a bad thing yet it happened in the stories.
Your are arguing against yourself.

You forget that it says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. So much for God forcing people.

Sir it clearly says: "I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants," and "the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart"

I agree, it makes no sense at all. But I do see that you have heard the often repeated nonsense that all God wants is just to have relationship with people. You won't find this in the scripture as to His own goal.
The latter is nonsense, true nonsense. Would you like to know what God wants? Be assured, He is not lonely nor missing you or anyone. I can tell you what He wants in one sentence. "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what God requires of you, but that you do justly (by others) and love mercy (towards those who do not justly to you) and walk humbly with your God." None of this is the sappy nonsense one hears in church these days. So I do not blame you for the false impression you have received.

Q: So are you saying God of the Bible does not want people to believe in him and have a relationship with them ?

[Mae von H]

Beliefs are definately acquired by choice. Every jury proves this. They hear the evidence and make a choice what to believe. Some honest people want to believe the truth and so spend energy looking for it.
Now, please produce the Bible verses that say God appeared to some. It is true that messengers appeared but NEVER EVER to atheists. And the messengers never were commissioned to tell the recipients that God is alive. All of those who received messengers from the living God were devoted believers. God does not have the goal of someone merely believing in Him. You are greatly mistaken.

1.
No they are not.
I did choose to become an atheist. I was compelled by the evidence showing the other way around. I was a Pentecostal Christian. And I believed God of the Bible exists, prayed to him, went to Church.
As I learned more about our world, became more knowledgeable of certain topics: logic, philosophy, cosmology, geology, biology, paleontology, psychology, physics and watched several debate on the topic I started to question. Few years later I became an atheist.

You CHOSE to immerse yourself in writings of those who reject the evidence for what you had believed. You embraced their position willingly. That was your choice. I studied those matters as well. My faith grew as my understanding did, but I didn’t read only authors who believed. I did, however, see clearly the assumptions (a priori) that led them to conclusions. You choose all that you read without critique. Your choice.

2.
God did appeared, revealed himself to Adam and Eve, Noah, Jacob, Moses, to Saul-Paul and so on.

Let’s see….theres no record God appeared to Adam and Eve. Same for Jacob, Moses and Paul. So do you have a description of Him appearing to them? What did they see?

According to your logic he forced them to belief which according to you its a bad thing yet it happened in the stories.
Your are arguing against yourself.

Do you have a quote where I said any such thing?

The thing is, your presentation of both what I supposedly said and God appearing tell me that you are not anywhere close to being unbiased. We can assume to read those pieces with the same bias.

You forget that it says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. So much for God forcing people.

Sir it clearly says: "I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants," and "the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart"

“Pharaoh harden his heart.” But you probably edit that one out. Biased.

I agree, it makes no sense at all. But I do see that you have heard the often repeated nonsense that all God wants is just to have relationship with people. You won't find this in the scripture as to His own goal.
The latter is nonsense, true nonsense. Would you like to know what God wants? Be assured, He is not lonely nor missing you or anyone. I can tell you what He wants in one sentence. "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what God requires of you, but that you do justly (by others) and love mercy (towards those who do not justly to you) and walk humbly with your God." None of this is the sappy nonsense one hears in church these days. So I do not blame you for the false impression you have received.

Q: So are you saying God of the Bible does not want people to believe in him and have a relationship with them ?

Ah, again the twisting of what was said. I have yet to meet an honest seeker of truth in an ex-christian. To a man they twist what was said. This is why I doubt it when an atheist says they were a believer but read other material and stopped believing. The inability to accurately report either what the Bible says or even what I said (same language and culture) tells me the outcome was desired and material to support that actively sought.

[alexxcJRO]

You CHOSE to immerse yourself in writings of those who reject the evidence for what you had believed. You embraced their position willingly. That was your choice. I studied those matters as well. My faith grew as my understanding did, but I didn’t read only authors who believed. I did, however, see clearly the assumptions (a priori) that led them to conclusions. You choose all that you read without critique. Your choice.

You were not convinced and did not changed your belief.
I was convinced ergo I changed my belief.
I was resistent to change. I did not wanted to not believe. But the change happened nevertheless. There was no choice to not believe.
Q: Can you choose from tomorow to be a believer in Allah or Brahma?

Let’s see….theres no record God appeared to Adam and Eve. Same for Jacob, Moses and Paul. So do you have a description of Him appearing to them? What did they see?

He revealed himself to them(Saul-Paul for example) in some form and convinced them of his existence.
According to your logic he forced them to believe.

Do you have a quote where I said any such thing?
The thing is, your presentation of both what I supposedly said and God appearing tell me that you are not anywhere close to being unbiased. We can assume to read those pieces with the same bias.

I did not said you specifically said he forced them. But that your logic does so.

“Pharaoh harden his heart.” But you probably edit that one out. Biased.

Sir it clearly says: "Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them"
I did not edited anything.
https://biblehub.com/exodus/10-1.htm

Ah, again the twisting of what was said. I have yet to meet an honest seeker of truth in an ex-christian. To a man they twist what was said. This is why I doubt it when an atheist says they were a believer but read other material and stopped believing. The inability to accurately report either what the Bible says or even what I said (same language and culture) tells me the outcome was desired and material to support that actively sought.

1. Sir I was a Penticostal Christian and went to Speranta Church on Strada Siretului, nr. 10, Cluj-Napoca, România.
I had my first debate with the pastor: Ionuț Benea after my family made an intervention.
They though the pastor could convinced me.

2. Please don't go add hominem path.
Please answer the question:
Q: So are you saying God of the Bible does not want people to believe in him and have a relationship with them ?

[Mae von H]

You CHOSE to immerse yourself in writings of those who reject the evidence for what you had believed. You embraced their position willingly. That was your choice. I studied those matters as well. My faith grew as my understanding did, but I didn’t read only authors who believed. I did, however, see clearly the assumptions (a priori) that led them to conclusions. You choose all that you read without critique. Your choice.

You were not convinced and did not changed your belief.
I was convinced ergo I changed my belief.
I was resistent to change. I did not wanted to not believe. But the change happened nevertheless. There was no choice to not believe.

After immersing yourself in the thinking of those who do not believe, a choice you made. Then of course you became what they are. That was the choice. I saw the big holes in the thinking of those writings.

Q: Can you choose from tomorow to be a believer in Allah or Brahma?

I have read more of Islam than any other faith as well as looked at the fruit of that worldview and can see clearly that that worldview and faith is just not true.

Let’s see….theres no record God appeared to Adam and Eve. Same for Jacob, Moses and Paul. So do you have a description of Him appearing to them? What did they see?

He revealed himself to them(Saul-Paul for example) in some form and convinced them of his existence.
According to your logic he forced them to believe.

Jesus appeared to Paul. Not God the Father. And Jesus said he was "Jesus" the man Paul was persecuting. You need to write the Jesus appeared to Paul. And I see you have not found any passage that says God appeared to the others. Do you see that your understanding of the Bible is incorrect?

Do you have a quote where I said any such thing?
The thing is, your presentation of both what I supposedly said and God appearing tell me that you are not anywhere close to being unbiased. We can assume to read those pieces with the same bias.

I did not said you specifically said he forced them. But that your logic does so.

No it does not. There are examples of God releasing miracles, people seeing, and still not believing. So there is no logic to appearing means forcing.

“Pharaoh harden his heart.” But you probably edit that one out. Biased.

Sir it clearly says: "Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them"
I did not edited anything.

But when Pharaoh saw that there was a respite, he hardened his heart and would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Yes, you left out that bit.

Please don't go add hominem path.
Please answer the question:
Q: So are you saying God of the Bible does not want people to believe in him and have a relationship with them ?

No i am not saying that and I am not ad hominem. Where do you see me attacking you personally? Why do you even think that from what I wrote? Can you please not choose to draw very negative conclusions from what is written changing it?

[alexxcJRO]

After immersing yourself in the thinking of those who do not believe, a choice you made. Then of course you became what they are. That was the choice. I saw the big holes in the thinking of those writings.

I was resistant to change. I did not wanted to not believe. But the change happened nevertheless. There was no choice to not believe.

I have read more of Islam than any other faith as well as looked at the fruit of that worldview and can see clearly that that worldview and faith is just not true.

Don't avoid the question please.
You said it is a choice.
Q: Can you choose from tomorrow to be a believer in Allah or Brahma? (Yes or No)

Jesus appeared to Paul. Not God the Father. And Jesus said he was "Jesus" the man Paul was persecuting. You need to write the Jesus appeared to Paul. And I see you have not found any passage that says God appeared to the others. Do you see that your understanding of the Bible is incorrect?

Q: Is Jesus not God?
Is does not matter if Jesus is God Almighty-Father or just a smaller God-Son. Its about divinity being revealed in some form and proven to someone .
God revealed himself to others too: Adam and Eve, Jacob, Moses.

No it does not. There are examples of God releasing miracles, people seeing, and still not believing. So there is no logic to appearing means forcing.

It's irrelevant. If God convinced one person of its existence through revelation my point stands.
It means it does not force anything and it is not a problem.
If it's a problem we should not have talks of God revealing its existence to nobody. God would hide from all.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

But when Pharaoh saw that there was a respite, he hardened his heart and would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Yes, you left out that bit.

The text clearly says God hardened Pharaoh and his officials to not let the Israelites go.

No i am not saying that and I am not ad hominem. Where do you see me attacking you personally? Why do you even think that from what I wrote? Can you please not choose to draw very negative conclusions from what is written changing it?

Ad hominem means avoiding the other person argument and talking about him which you did.
Please don't avoid again:
Q: So are you saying God of the Bible does not want people to believe in him and have a relationship with them ?

[mgb]

So, reasonable or not. We atheists exist to set an example to the morally stunted of the world?

That is assuming that atheists are always moral people. But I get your point.

The kind of atheist you are talking about is the intellectual one; one who rejects belief on purely intellectual grounds but does not reject the good, which is God. So is s/he really an atheist?

[TheHolyGhost]

Why Did God Create Atheists?

Because He hates them.