According to What or Who?

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

God is also:

Jealous and vengeful:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ion=NRSVUE

5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me

Murderous and cruel:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ion=NRSVUE

29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the prisoner who was in the dungeon and all the firstborn of the livestock.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ion=NRSVUE

6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen lurched. 7 The anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him there,[e] and he died there beside the ark of God.

War mongering and supports slavery and rape:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ion=NRSVUE

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Avenge the Israelites on the Midianites; afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”

9 The Israelites took the women of Midian and their little ones captive, and they plundered all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods.

15 Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? 16 These women here, on Balaam’s advice, made the Israelites act treacherously against the Lord in the affair of Peor, so that the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.

But hey, as long as He has patience and love it's all good right?

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes. By what standard? By the morals we were supposedly given and God falls short in both O and NT. Or by the human morals we have devised?

What do we get from yet another slam dunk fail of Biblegod? Repetition of failed faithclaims, failed apologetics and failed Bibletext, even if not quotemined, even before we get to denial of science, history, validated evidence or even what the Bible says, if it doesn't suit them.

On my Other board I proposed a mental image (Online designers might like to create this) of a statue put up by the atheist community 'The eternal Theist' eyes shut, fingers in ears, mouth wide open (optional tape loop of Biblical faithclaims).

This is what we know is coming because we have seen it before. The mentality and method is predictable and based on the false premise that God is the default theory. Atheism is the challenge, and all they have to do is score a few cheap (or even dishonest) points and Theism remains the default.

Should atheism make a few arguments, they can be countered with some stock apologetics (1) and when they are squashed with the stock refutations, we get the denial, the repetition and the hitting back. It is like a scammer trying on a scam we already know about. And we don'tknow whether to laugh or cry when they do the same thing over and over and expect to get a different result.

(1) I'd still like to know which book or website they get them from - but that is a better -kept secret than just what dirt Putin is using to blackmail Trump with, though in fact we are almost sure.

[benchwarmer]

(1) I'd still like to know which book or website they get them from - but that is a better -kept secret than just what dirt Putin is using to blackmail Trump with, though in fact we are almost sure.

One of the websites they get them from is https://answersingenesis.org/answers/

If you are looking for a good laugh and marvel at all the science denial, that's a great place to check out. It's also a good spot to find the usual worn out apologetics often plopped down as if they make some sort of sense.

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

By His actions? Bible tells for example:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Matt. 5:44-45

If we get those things that are said to be signs of God's love, I think we can say He posses those attributes.

If we are to judge him by his said actions, then couldn't I just as easily provide verse(s) which are the antithesis of the term(s) "love", 'just', 'merciful', etc? See post 11, for starters.

[Difflugia]

(1) I'd still like to know which book or website they get them from - but that is a better -kept secret than just what dirt Putin is using to blackmail Trump with, though in fact we are almost sure.

Of course, those are just some of the ones from recent centuries. Apologists have been rehashing the same arguments for a long time.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #15]

Yes indeed. I had heard of these apologetics books. I should expect (if I ever got a reply) that it was one of these. But some of the answers seem to be 'on the hoof' - made up on the spot and changed a week later and denying they ever proposed the former idea. At the same time, many can be traced to the apolgetics tomes you referenced.

[1213]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

By His actions? Bible tells for example:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Matt. 5:44-45

If we get those things that are said to be signs of God's love, I think we can say He posses those attributes.

If we are to judge him by his said actions, then couldn't I just as easily provide verse(s) which are the antithesis of the term(s) "love", 'just', 'merciful', etc?

I am not against you providing verses. However, in this case it might be that you have a different definition for those and the question would be, are you wrong.

[1213]

...The fruits we see, are control, exploitation and endless lies...

Now it seems to me that you are talking about Biden. I was not talking about Bidler, sorry, this was about God.

[TRANSPONDER]

...The fruits we see, are control, exploitation and endless lies...

Now it seems to me that you are talking about Biden. I was not talking about Bidler, sorry, this was about God.

I was talking about the fruits of the church, but they apply very much to Trump and Maga. Biden's term has seen an improvement in nearly everything, so much that Trump had to admit that things were getting better but only (he said) because people expected Trump to be elected again. Now Trump it taking conrol of the Gop finances to pay for his legal fees. It is all Lies, control and exploitation, and telling lies about his campaign opponent.

I would leave out trying to snipe at Biden, you won't find it does you much good, just shows up your bias, denial and willingness to repeat false apologetics, political as well as religious.

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

By His actions? Bible tells for example:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Matt. 5:44-45

If we get those things that are said to be signs of God's love, I think we can say He posses those attributes.

If we are to judge him by his said actions, then couldn't I just as easily provide verse(s) which are the antithesis of the term(s) "love", 'just', 'merciful', etc?

I am not against you providing verses. However, in this case it might be that you have a different definition for those and the question would be, are you wrong.

I already know your position. If God commands it, it is just. PERIOD! Even if it makes no sense at all logically, we humans have no basis to judge against God. Am I close?