Obvious Designer?

[POI]

Otseng's statement: "This is the variation of the omnipotent God argument by imagining a hypothetical perfect design. There is no need for God to be a "perfect" designer.

In human designs as well, things are not perfect and have flaws, but they are still designed. Nobody claims since iPhones have flaws in them that Apple engineers are either crappy designers or they don't exist at all."

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There is just so much to flesh out in this cluster of statements, I do not know where to begin. I guess we can start here and see where this goes.

For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not? Please explain why or why not. If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...

a) an intelligent designer?
b) an unintelligent designer?
c) a deceptive designer?

Like all other topics, let's see where this one goes.... And for funsies, here is a 10-minute video -- optional, but begins to put forth a case for options b) or c), if "designed" at all:

[The Nice Centurion]

In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

So, were you forgiven

[TRANSPONDER]

If we abandon the 'perfect god'claim and permit flaws and shortcomings, then the 'perfectly good'god is out of the window. We have just a half way decent competent and fair being. The excuse, excuses this 'designer' form being the only option for an imperfect design.

[1213]

...
For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not? Please explain why or why not. If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...

a) an intelligent designer?
b) an unintelligent designer?
c) a deceptive designer?
...

I believe humans were designed and created. Humans can't make as intelligent design, and have no idea how to create life from non-organic dead material, therefore I think the design is very intelligent.

Other reason for me to think the designer is intelligent is that everything works very finely, in spite of the corruption that has happened many thousands of years.

Everything in nature points to that in the beginning the creation was good, and after God was rejected, things have started to corrupt and get weaker. For example atheists say whales had feet once, not they are so corrupt that they don't have much remaining. And there are also many other alleged atrophies that tell about great degeneration, that some mistakenly call "evolution", which obviously is not very intelligent theory.

[POI]

everything works very finely, in spite of the corruption that has happened many thousands of years.

Your response here is baffling. The 'design' has the female vagina share the same pathway as the urinary tract, which is prone to frequent UTI's. Prior to our recent discovery of antibiotics, all the prayer in the world would not stop their deaths, after contracting a UTI. This is about poor fundamental design, if any at all?

Everything in nature points to that in the beginning the creation was good, and after God was rejected, things have started to corrupt and get weaker.

Aaah! So, if "evil" never entered the world, the woman would never contract a UTI, even though we now know how the germ theory of disease actually works?

For example atheists say whales had feet once, not they are so corrupt that they don't have much remaining. And there are also many other alleged atrophies that tell about great degeneration, that some mistakenly call "evolution", which obviously is not very intelligent theory.

It's obvious you are not the authority in describing how evolutionary theory works. You do understand that the same scientific principles apply in the germ theory of disease, cell theory, and the theory of gravity, right?

[POI]

So, were you forgiven

So, were you planning on actually engaging the topic?

[Tcg]

Otseng's statement: "This is the variation of the omnipotent God argument by imagining a hypothetical perfect design. There is no need for God to be a "perfect" designer.

In human designs as well, things are not perfect and have flaws, but they are still designed. Nobody claims since iPhones have flaws in them that Apple engineers are either crappy designers or they don't exist at all."

*****************************

There is just so much to flesh out in this cluster of statements, I do not know where to begin. I guess we can start here and see where this goes.

For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not? Please explain why or why not. If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...

a) an intelligent designer?
b) an unintelligent designer?
c) a deceptive designer?

Like all other topics, let's see where this one goes.... And for funsies, here is a 10-minute video -- optional, but begins to put forth a case for options b) or c), if "designed" at all:

I'm addressing this question in particular: "Is it obvious humans were designed, or not?" Once one understands the basics of evolution, the obvious answer is, no. There is a sense I suppose in which it could be said that evolution designed us, but not in the sense that there is a directing conscience. So, the answer remains, no. We're all prototypes really, prototypes of nature, but that is a different topic.


Tcg

[Mae von H]

In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

So, were you forgiven

Only if he returned the stolen bike.

[Mae von H]

Otseng's statement: "This is the variation of the omnipotent God argument by imagining a hypothetical perfect design. There is no need for God to be a "perfect" designer.

In human designs as well, things are not perfect and have flaws, but they are still designed. Nobody claims since iPhones have flaws in them that Apple engineers are either crappy designers or they don't exist at all."

*****************************

There is just so much to flesh out in this cluster of statements, I do not know where to begin. I guess we can start here and see where this goes.

For Debate: Is it obvious humans were designed, or not? Please explain why or why not. If you believe so, does this design lead more-so towards...

a) an intelligent designer?
b) an unintelligent designer?
c) a deceptive designer?

Like all other topics, let's see where this one goes.... And for funsies, here is a 10-minute video -- optional, but begins to put forth a case for options b) or c), if "designed" at all:

I'm addressing this question in particular: "Is it obvious humans were designed, or not?" Once one understands the basics of evolution, the obvious answer is, no. There is a sense I suppose in which it could be said that evolution designed us, but not in the sense that there is a directing conscience. So, the answer remains, no. We're all prototypes really, prototypes of nature, but that is a different topic.


Tcg

The problem with this discussion is its success hangs totally on the education in anatomy and physiology of the participants. For example, there is the old atheist argument about the eye being poorly designed at the retina. But an educated person pointed out that the "flaw" the atheists delighted to point out was actually vital as had the blood flow been as the atheists thought a better design, we would not see at all as blood is opaque. This the atheists did not consider. So those who think the design is flawed, generally are uneducated in human anatomy and physiology. Ignorance is bliss for the atheists in this discussion.

[1213]

...The 'design' has the female vagina share the same pathway as the urinary tract, which is prone to frequent UTI's. Prior to our recent discovery of antibiotics, all the prayer in the world would not stop their deaths, after contracting a UTI. This is about poor fundamental design, if any at all?

Do you know why people get the UTI's?

I think it is very intelligent design that urinary tract is there, because urine is a disinfectant. Probably the whole reproduction system would not work without it being so.

So, if "evil" never entered the world, the woman would never contract a UTI, even though we now know how the germ theory of disease actually works?

I believe, if people would live by God's rules, it would greatly reduce the risk of getting UTI's. And if people would not have rejected God at the beginning, I believe such problems would not exist.